The France/Syria/China Connection.....

[Joel]

When that wasnt forthcomming after the war, it had to borrow massively from the US at (then) high rates of interest...

Most of which has never been paid back.

This was an intentional move by the US to leverage itsself into the dominant economic force in the world.

Yeah and we have been paying for it ever since with the rest of the world always looking to US to fix their problems and then criticizing US everytime we turn around. They want US to spend the money, the equipment and put our people in harms way but not have a voice in anything. Don't seem right to me. But then again I'm just one of those dumb Americans, right??

The US has always wanted to have an infulence on the OPEC board. This is how it will get it.

It's about damn time.

Joel

[GNEP]

Originally posted by ex RedRed
Apparently Exxon has already been in negotions re the management ond replacement of Iraqi Oil supplies & equipment.
The US has always wanted to have an infulence on the OPEC board. This is how it will get it.

Apparently (I have no more info than what is public) so have RD/Shell, BP, Total(FinaElf), ChevronTexaco and the rest. So this is not just a US thing. But working in this industry, it does make me feel "dirty" to be a part of all that.

[thop]

Pace:

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Ant
I always thought the idea of the security council with members having votes and powers of veto were sort of to make it democratic, or is that just my silly misconception? Seems the idea is great when they all vote one way but when some want to exercise their democratic right and go another way that is a different story. There must be checks and balances. To brand people the way some are being branded now because of choosing not to follow the US/UK line is a disgrace from countries that supposedly pin the badge of democracy so proudly to their chests.

If people want to post blanket statements about "the French" etc etc they should damn well justify those statements themselves rather than making one liners that just make themselves look stupid. If not shut up and don't enter into it.

Well said Ant.

[RedRed]

Sorry Joel That wasnt meant to be a personal comment - appologies if you thought it was...

But actually, we ARE STILL PAYING IT BACK....

RedRed

[Dr Mordrid]

I would also like to note that many in Chirac's own party are now criticizing his stance as unreasonalble and unreasoned. In my mind these behaviorismes are best exemplified by Chriac rejecting the UK's most recent suggestions before Iraq even commented on them

Apparently not everyone in France is so enamored of being on the side of a major despot.

Dr. Mordrid

[GNEP]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Apparently not everyone in France is so enamored of being on the side of a major despot.

Just as apparently not everyone in the US is so enamored of being on the side of a major despot.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

[Dr Mordrid]

Cute, but not very informative.

Anyhow, a despot does his will absent the public will. Bush is actually in tune with the public will of his constituents. In point of fact support in the US for military action with or without the UN is steady at between 59% (Gallup poll) and 71% (Opinion Dynamics poll).

Chirac & Co. have overplayed their hand in terms of US public opinion.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

GNEP,

You obviously have an extremely limited understanding of how the USA runs if you think GWB has enough power to be considered a despot. Other than running the army (with the approval of Congress) he has no direct power at all. None. Zero. Zip. Our president has less power than any other ruler of any other country. On purpose.

Everyone,

Please note that Chirac is finally waking up. He has just announced (reuters, as of about 10 minutes ago) that he's willing to talk with Blair about some of the new conditions, as long as they are extensions of proposition 1441... maybe he's finally realizing that everyone is seeing through to his true motives.

- Gurm

[thop]

I don't know if i shall laugh or cry

[Dr Mordrid]

It's also been announced that Bush, Blair & Aznar are having a summit this weekend in the Azores to plan what's next. I wouldn't expect any good news for Chirac & Co.

Also interesting is something that's gone un-reported: Japan is now in the US's corner re: Iraq.

Also: it seems US consumers are beginning to vote with their dollars and feet. Locally organized boycotts of French & German goods are forming. From what I'm seeing here it's going beyond not buying French wines and is moving into more mass market items. Of course there is nothing the WTO can do about people just refusing to buy their wares.

In a country as large as the US this is often a sign that people want to "do their individual part" in showing displeasure.

Dr. Mordrid

[GNEP]

Woah there Trigger. I was being (probably overly) flippant Sorry. Won't do it again.

[Pace]

Originally posted by Wombat
No, actually, we didn't. All those war bonds and whatnot, we still lost money on WWII. WWII cost the US $2 trillion in 2003 dollars. We sure didn't make all that back.

However, had the US not helped out, they probably would have been worse off economically - a Europe run by Hitler would have been a superpower at the time, especially had he conquered Britain.

Thankfully the US did get involved eventually, and helped the world out. Although as we all still owe them money, I'm sure it will eventually work out to be a fair profit.

Plus you can't attribute all those costs to helping Europe - I assume those costs cover the expenses regarding the Japanese side of the war, Pearl Harbour et al.

Originally posted by thop
Pace:

Hehe, don't you get pleased at my statement, you only post pro-European/anti-US stuff

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
I would also like to note that many in Chirac's own party are now criticizing his stance as unreasonalble and unreasoned. In my mind these behaviorismes are best exemplified by Chriac rejecting the UK's most recent suggestions before Iraq even commented on them

Apparently not everyone in France is so enamored of being on the side of a major despot.

Originally posted by GNEP
Just as apparently not everyone in the US is so enamored of being on the side of a major despot.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Cute, but not very informative.

Anyhow, a despot does his will absent the public will. Bush is actually in tune with the public will of his constituents. In point of fact support in the US for military action with or without the UN is steady at between 59% (Gallup poll) and 71% (Opinion Dynamics poll).

Chirac & Co. have overplayed their hand in terms of US public opinion.

I struggle to see how any of the previous posts are more informative than the other. The fact is the world is pretty much split over whether to go to war or not. I've not seen many opinion polls over here, but then as everyone knows, there's lies, there's damned lies, and then there's statistics. Hope we can all back up the decision to kill based on what USA Today/The Sun etc posted as their favourite poll...

[thop]

Those boycotts, is that some kind of "Kauft nicht bei Juden!" Doc?

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by Pace
I've not seen many opinion polls over here, but then as everyone knows, there's lies, there's damned lies, and then there's statistics. Hope we can all back up the decision to kill based on what USA Today/The Sun etc posted as their favourite poll...

That polls by Opinion Dynamics (more conservative) and Gallup (more liberal) are both showing supermajority support is extremely significant. This one cuts across political lines and has large independent voter support in the US.

As far as "Kauft nicht bei Juden!" goes; it's more like "Kauft nicht mit hypocrits!".

Dr. Mordrid