The Matrix Reloaded

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Gurm
And to ADD to that...

If the first "one" escaped from the Matrix 600-1000 years ago... he would HAVE to have been helped by the machines! Because he would have known NOTHING about technology! Think about THAT one for a minute. Where did people from the Dark Ages learn to hack? The machines HAVE to have been helping.

And what if some humans survived on their own? They're a huge unknown factor. At any rate, the Animatrix shows a group of people who had the implants, but were not part of Zion. They also seemed to be dealing with less-mature machines. (On a side note, it sure looks like it was done by the same guys that used to do Aeon Flux).

[Gurm]

Ok, I just read that article that Ajax posted, and with the possible exception of the motivations of the machines (I'm not sure that they are incapable of destroying humanity - rather I think that they might PREFER to keep us all alive in the Matrix, but they're willing to accept the alternatives if necessary), I agree with it 100%. This guy is fairly eloquent, and can summon up the necessary quotes that I can't (because while I remember virtually everything I've ever read, I can't remember WHERE I read it).

- Gurm

[Wombat]

The fellow wrote a pretty good piece, but he makes some conclusions without dismissing the alternative choices, or really justifiying his. Also, if the Oracle is analagous to Sophia, then the Architect would be a spawn of the Oracle, just as the Demiurge is a spawn of Sophia. That doesn't quite add up.

[Gurm]

Yeah, I'm not totally thrilled with his conclusions about ALL of the origins of the characters. I think that the Brothers are too wrapped up in alternative theologies to bother with too much DIRECT borrowing from Greek/Roman mythos.

Now, some thoughts:

1. Did you all get the sense that ZION was destroyed at the end of this movie? Or merely that their last defenses of the mainlines were destroyed? I kinda thought that all of Zion was destroyed, but I may have misheard that part (I had to pee REALLY bad at the end...) or something.

2. I'm now thinking that the Matrix HAS been on for a thousand years - or more. The Oracle alludes to "ghosts, goblins, etc." and the Merovingian keeps vampires as houseguests... I'm guessing that every "supernatural" thing over the past 1000 years (or longer) is either a glitch in the Matrix, or a program!

3. I'll reiterate my point - anyone "freed" from the Matrix 200 years ago would have had a HELL of a time accepting and/or thriving in that world. The machines would have HAD to help! Also this would explain why they like to take people from the Matrix when they are young - the younger you are, the easier it is to teach you all new modern-type stuff... especially if you're used to the idea of living in the 1700's!

Ok, I'm tired now but I think I understand where this is going. Neo is different from all the other previous "ones", and the Architect isn't REALLY all that, or else he's lying quite a bit.

- Gurm

[Wombat]

As for the third point: No, not if there were Zionists that never entered the Matrix. That still doen't help the times match up.

Point 1: Couldn't say for sure, but I doubt it. I think things are still unfinished with Locke, and the kid that worships Neo. All ships except the Logos were out as part of that final defense, so there's no way I can think of for Zion to be destroyed and still have these characters around.

*brain flash* Duh. The preview for Revolutions shows some stuff that wouldn't make sense if Zion is gone. I remember one of those 'mechs guarding the gates being in a battle scene in the trailer.

[Wombat]

Just finished Enter the Matrix, so I saw the trailer again.

The guy fighting in the 'mech is Lock. And in the trailer, Zion is still standing (12 hours to go).

On a side note: <B>don't buy this game</B>. The engine is poor, the game play isn't that great, and it only takes about 6 hours of game time to beat, on Normal, first time through. If I didn't care about the story line, I would have binned it.

[leech]

I agree, Wombat. Except for there was ONE section of the game that I thought was a blast. The part where you get to kill the Vampires in the Merovingian's hideout.

The only real reason to buy this game is because of the fmv that is in it that explains more of the story. And the trailer at the end was definitely different than the one that showed at the end of Revolutions, but not by much.

I do think it's pretty cool how they integrated everything into the story. Filling in the parts in the movie that you were kind of left wondering about.

As far as Zion being destroyed..... no, as it clarifies in Enter the Matrix, it was just the ships that were destroyed. It actually has a cutscene that's not in Matrix Reloaded about how Bane (I think that's the name of the guy Smith took over) killed all his crew and set off the EMP early. It also shows some other scenes of Lock feeling the frustration of his plan failing miserably.

Leech

[Drizzt]

Gurm, the timeline is really clear and easy...but I'm the only one who has found this film really obvious? O_o

[Gurm]

Drizzt,

The timeline is FAR from clear and easy.

I find the concept of the machines picking some random date in the past and "starting" the Matrix at, say, the year 1000 A.D. intriguing, but not without its share of headaches.

- Gurm

[Gurm]

Drizzt,

Also, it's FAR from a "really obvious" film. Read that article posted up above. It's filled with neo-theology and bizarre philosophical ideas.

- Gurm

[GT98]

Well Gurm,

What about the Animatrix shorts....it seems to me that the Rise of the Machines happens with in the next 100 yrs of "our" current timeline. The Reason that the year 1999 was selected for Matrix program was that Humans where at the hight of our civilization without coming close to the area where AI took off and how everything went to shit from there on out. So I'm more willing to be inclined to believe that the Matrix is happening a couple hundred years into the future then going back to the 1400s.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Gurm
Drizzt,

Also, it's FAR from a "really obvious" film. Read that article posted up above. It's filled with neo-theology and bizarre philosophical ideas.

- Gurm

Gurm, I did. And I think that it's 50% bullshit, 50% nice ideas.
I'm trying to write my own explanation, but I need time.

The only thing that I can say about the article itself is that humanity has developed so much religions and views and philosopies since the beginning of civilization that you can easily fit a few hundreds of mistical hypotesys in Matrix itself.
And that exactly what that guy does: it takes a scenes from the film and adapt a religion/philos to them, using all the religion/philos he can find.


Gurm, re-read the article. It doesn't explain the film.

[Topha]

Originally posted by GT98
Well Gurm,

What about the Animatrix shorts....it seems to me that the Rise of the Machines happens with in the next 100 yrs of "our" current timeline. The Reason that the year 1999 was selected for Matrix program was that Humans where at the hight of our civilization without coming close to the area where AI took off and how everything went to shit from there on out. So I'm more willing to be inclined to believe that the Matrix is happening a couple hundred years into the future then going back to the 1400s.

But that one is from the Zion archives. Might be wrong

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Gurm
Drizzt,

I find the concept of the machines picking some random date in the past and "starting" the Matrix at, say, the year 1000 A.D. intriguing, but not without its share of headaches.

- Gurm

This is the same reason for Neo could not destroy Mr Smith or destroy Matrix in a single move...

[Gurm]

Drizzt,

This is the same reason for Neo could not destroy Mr Smith or destroy Matrix in a single move...

I fail to grasp this. Please rephrase it or explain.

GT98:

So you think that they're looping it? The way the FIRST film runs, you think that the Matrix has been around for only 100 years or so, and that they're re-running the 20th century over and over or some such. But with the "earlier version of the Matrix" comments, the Merovingian and the vampires and ghosts... I'm thinking they started it MUCH earlier. If it's been running for 1000 years, they probably started it at 1000 A.D.

Will they loop it? Dunno. I think their goal is to get it "right" through successive iterations of the one, and then restart it. That's what I think.

Drizzt Again:

As for the article being 50% bullshit... I think that some of his ideas about Christianity, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. are off-target. But the first film was ALL about Gnostic philosophy.

- Gurm