Teachers right to carry firearms....

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by cjolley
Ok smart guy, so why is the violent crime rate so much higher here than in countries with fewer privately held firearms?
chuck

PS Sorry, I couldn't help it.....

Then why don't you explain why most of that crime is in cities and states where gun laws are the most restrictive? It's because the bad guys don't follow laws of any kind, least of all gun laws.

As such all strict gun laws accomplish give the bad guys a virtual guarantee that their victims will be defenseless.

In those 32 states where concealed carry laws have been implemented violent crime took a nosedive because the citizenry wasn't perceived by the bad guys to be helpless anymore.

Even they have a survival instinct

Contrasting with the US experience is what happened in Australia; when they passed restrictive laws that totally disarmed most citizens the violent crime rate went UP 40%.

Must be a lesson in there somewhere....

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

Hey Doc, I was baiting GURM, not you.

The statistics you site are subject to interpretation at least.
Others find the opposite.

We do not know, may never know, maybe even can't know, the full effects of either policy extreme.

The real answers are philosophical.
In the US we have a culture of liberal gun ownership.
Some how we manage to survive it.
Other places have the opposite culture.
Somehow they manage to survive that too.

Here, gun ownership was originally understood to be desirable as a check on rapacious government.
With the advances in military tactics and weapons, this purpose is now moot.
But the idea is imbedded in our culture.
You might as well ask US drivers to start thinking of red as go and green as stop.
It just ain't going to happen.
chuck

PS We have a better defence than a puny little gun.
We have two Chow Dogs.
We don't even lock our doors at night.

[Dr Mordrid]

I have guns, and at night the one of "interest" is a 12ga autoloader with a short barrel (still legal though) NO choke, a light "sight". It's loaded with magnum shells containing a mix of 000 buckshot & #6 steel shot. Just in case that doesn't get the message across the last 2 shells in the gun are .50 caliber/500 grain sabots.

Then there is Spike: a 112 lb Rottweiler/Rhodesian Ridgeback mix. Nice with kids, but EVIL at 3:00 am

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

The crime rate in GENERAL here is higher.

And I'm not insulting your intellect, Tone.

Criminals in YOUR country have guns. Perhaps not your average cat burglar, but criminals have guns. Period. I don't like the odds. Sadly, your analogy is flawed.

Burglar breaks in, you don't have a gun... he can HURT you and your family. Will he? Probably not. But there's a chance. Now, if you're a big guy with a big dog and you know karate, great.

Otherwise, you want a weapon - 'cuz the other guy presumably is NOT helpless. He's armed with SOMETHING. If not a gun then a knife or a club.

Now, let's say you've had NO training in hand-to-hand combat... which, I daresay, most people haven't.

The burglar is a criminal. Criminals tend to be capable of taking care of themselves.

Upshot? He can hurt you. Even if you have a hand-to-hand weapon like a knife or a baseball bat, he can hurt you. And your family.

The robber can't hurt me. I have a loaded gun, a laser sight, and a willingness to use lethal force to prevent him from hurting my family.

Perhaps your willingness to lose a few possessions and be compensated by the insurance company extends to your wife and kids?

- Gurm

[Dr Mordrid]

Exactly, and those who do bust & runs (quite a few of those these days) are very often willing to do other damage while they're at it. You do have to be willing to shoot though.

Years ago when my family lived on the farm I had to open fire on an armed bad guy, and if I hadn't my father would have been killed. Having been through something like that once you never want to be caught unarmed again.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

No no, DrM.

You were supposed to stand there, let your father be killed, and bask in the moral superiority that Fat Tone and the other Euro{censored} enjoy.

- Gurm

[Dr Mordrid]

NO F*****G WAY IN H**L was that going to happen!!

A 12ga slug ended the issue, and the police were more than understanding given that the closest State Police post was 25 miles away.

Dr. Mordrid

[Fat Tone]

I don't expect to change your minds - its just too deeply engrained in your culture, but I don't regard that as losing the argument.

Yes, some criminals here have guns, and unfortunately its on the increase because they are too easy to get hold of - they are flooding into the country. This is being reflected in the increased numbers of armed police, but they, like armed criminals are still in a minority. However, most of the time the crims are using the weapons on each other.

No one would expect Doc to standby and watch his father get killed, but if guns weren't so prevalent then the odds are greater that situation wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I'm not basking in moral superiority, nor do I answer to whatever name you chose to call me, its just a fact that more people get killed/maimed where you are than where I am.

Your comment about being willing to lose my wife & kids is just childish. As it happends my house is pretty secure, alarmed, and I have various objects to hand that would do as weapons. There's no way I would keep a gun in a house with kids; if you keep it securely locked then what are your chances of accessing it when you need it in a hurry?

This started over guns in schools - can you honestly back that?

[Dr Mordrid]

Under certain conditions, yes. We already have them in our town in the form of a police officer permanently assigned to the high school. This after a student was stabbed to death on the steps of the school entrance.

No guns involved there my man, but still lethal and FYI there are far more knife attacks in the US than shootings. Does the victim of a knife attack have to just do with proportional response or should they have the right to have some overkill potential to balance the odds? I say they should.

Also: if you dig deep into the stats you'll find that in the US 98% of the time the defensive use of a firearm DOES NOT RESULT IN A SHOOTING!! That majority of bad guys either surrender or flee.

Those that don't are, IMHO, candidates for the judgement of Darwin and deserve what they get.

The problem is that studies on firearms use often bury this info deep in their documentation, if they include it at all. As a result the benefits of an armed citizenry are often underestimated and understated.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

Hey, I like the MetalStorm technology. Fingerprint ID's on guns, unusable by anyone except the registered owner(s).

- Gurm

[GNEP]

You never know you might need those guns to put down the injun uprising...

(JOKE)

[The Rock]

I'd like to see some stats on violent episodes during home invasions in Canada, where we have no guns, and NO NEED OF THEM. Personally, I like guns, and I'd love to carry 9 of them on me at all times, but ya just don't need that crap in my country (thank god). I'm not arguing for/against, so no flames please. Just curious about stats.

[Dr Mordrid]

I'd love to give you some stats that meant something, but you you believe anything released by the Chretien government?

Dr. Mordrid

[The Rock]

I don't believe anything released by ANY government.