Speaking of The Lord Of The Rings...

[Gurm]

and the elves are like Opera. Just the way Tolkien himself imagined.

Wanna give me some reference that supports the idea that Tolkien himself felt that elves sang Opera?

- Gurm

[Jon P. Inghram]

This is tempting me to post a little bit of elvish singing from The Hobbit... but I'm not that evil so I should be able to resist the urge.

[DukeP]

Originally posted by Gurm
Wanna give me some reference that supports the idea that Tolkien himself felt that elves sang Opera?

- Gurm

I guess that would be a bit out of my league - I have no acces to the original prints. Furthermore, these were not my words, but the words of the caretaker of his estate (Christopher Tolkien) - at the launch of the first cd.

I think they are in the cover somewhere - Ill have to check it tomorrow.

~~DukeP~~

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by KRSESQ
Leaving the question aside, a movie script is usually clocked out at one page per minute of screen time. A one hour television script is usually 55-60 pages.

As for the original question, I've tried it. Even with a relatively short 250-300 page novel it's hard as hell.

Sorry. I'm doing it again. Carry on.

(I REALLY like Enya's vocals on the soundtrack or FOTR. Actually I just kind of like Celtic music in general.)

Kevin

I suppose that depends on how much direction is included in the script. I was thinking of Shakespeare here, where a 150 page Hamlet runs 4 hours if done unedited. Kenneth Branagh did a film version of the unedited Hamlet which seemed endless.. it is often truncated for film or stage productions.

[KRSESQ]

Exactly. Stage scripts follow a different set of timing rules. In the productions I was involved with, one script page often translated to 2 minutes or more of stage time. Then again, Shakespeare has a whole set of rules of his own. Virtually no stage direction at all in his works (except the occasional exeunt, with flourish or enter three witches or Edmund is borne off).

Kevin

[Gurm]

Oh ah.

Well Christopher has utterly failed to do anything right regarding his father's estate. While I appreciate his hard work in getting the Silmarillion and the histories of Middle Earth to the general public, he did some real boneheaded things, such as:

1. Giving, in perpetuity, the film distribution rights to the Saul Zaents company... who have endlessly mucked the works up.

2. Being stuffy.

3. Going on the record as being against these new movies, despite Jackson's obvious love of the source material.

4. Being stuffy.

Christopher obviously LIKES opera. That has precious little to do with Middle Earth, where the culture and technology were remarkably unsuited to Opera.

- Gurm

[DukeP]

Grum I beg to differ.

Having read the actual Tolkien Lyrics, I find that the choice of genres and the musical composition as choosen by the performers are superb.

I really, really believe that this was as close to the intent of Tolkien as human possible.

But then again, we ARE allowed to have different oppinions.

~~DukeP~~

[Gurm]

Suuuuuuuuuure it was.

Have you read the books?

Not everyone likes Opera. And even the simplest music in that score busts into Opera. There you have Tom Bombadil - the spirit of simplicity. And all of a sudden there are violins, a full orchestral score, and an opera singer. Is Goldberry supposed to sing opera? We know only that her song is simple and pure. I utterly fail to equate "operatic" with "simple and pure".

- Gurm

[KvHagedorn]

Gurm, The world of Der Ring des Nibelungen is hardly too different in character from the world of Tolkien. In fact, Tolkien was inspired by all the legends of ancient Europe. I don't see why Middle Earth is neccesarily unsuited to operatic treatment. Now the particular treatment that was done might be unsuitable, which is open for debate. In Wagner's Ring there is a scene where Siegfried learns he can understand the birds, which is minimally orchestrated, very simple and evocative of nature, and the music there would not be out of place in Goldberry's world.

You're just biased because you don't like opera but love Tolkien, and can't imagine the two together.

[KvHagedorn]

Alright, I downloaded that music.. doesn't sound like opera to me, Gurm. It's the kind of folk music you'd hear at a Renaissance Festival. Her singing might be somewhat operatic, but it isn't opera. And she's mainly backed by a whole harp for an orchestra.

[Gurm]

Oh, it's not what you'd hear at a Renn Faire. I've been to more than a few of those in my time.

It DEFINITELY has overtones of Opera. Especially the chick singing - which rather than any sort of ethereal, atmospheric sort of singing is pure "lookit me I'm an alto".

Opera is, in and of itself, a relatively modern thing. And one of the primary themes of LOTR is anti-modernity.

Do I dislike Opera? Nope. I think it has its place. I've been to the opera and enjoyed myself quite thoroughly, thank you. I just don't think that pigeonholing something like that is a good idea.

"All Tolkien must be set to Opera" is a stupid thing to say, as would be "no Tolkien can be set to Opera". However, the "official LOTR theme music" is PRIMARILY operatic, even when they're trying to be provincial. There's only so convincingly provincial you can be when the singers are classically trained mezzosopranos.

That said, I like Howard Shore's score. I find the Operatic version to be plodding and forced.

- Gurm