The main difference between Europe and USA

[Tjalfe]

Originally posted by Topha
While we are at it: How can you (Americans) live with your power outlets? They scared the heck out of me several times when I was over there

the outlets are smaller, has lower voltage and are generally all grounded. what is wrong with that?
The european ones with their big round holes( not mentioning the british ones, which have to be the ugliest plugs anywhere ) are just asking for some kid to stick a knitting pin in there for some instant 230V action

[Greebe]

Originally posted by cjolley
I have:
I stuck one of my Mom's bobby pins in one when I was 5.
One side in each hole.
WOW!!!!!!!
chuck

We must be kindred spirits

[az]

I found the only unprotected outet in my granny's apartment and electrocuted myself as a kid. Don't remember it now, but I am proof that you can survive with only moderate brain damage

AZ

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by tjalfe
the outlets are smaller, has lower voltage and are generally all grounded. what is wrong with that?

They may be lower voltage, but doesn't that mean you get higher currents out of them? The current is what's dangerous.

Mind you, I doubt it matters much when it's 13A vs. 26A or whatever.

[Topha]

Originally posted by tjalfe
the outlets are smaller, has lower voltage and are generally all grounded. what is wrong with that?
The european ones with their big round holes( not mentioning the british ones, which have to be the ugliest plugs anywhere ) are just asking for some kid to stick a knitting pin in there for some instant 230V action

Dont know about the british, but here in germany the outlets (and the plugs as well) are very secure and leave an overall solid impression. The American outlets seem (to me) like they chose the cheapest possible solution. Maybe they are save, but they dont look like it and I dont like them

[Brian Ellis]

Originally posted by tjalfe
not mentioning the british ones, which have to be the ugliest plugs anywhere

Not only are they the ugliest, but they are part of the most dangerous wiring system in the world. And I speak from experience.

1. Nowhere are double-pole switches used, only single pole in the phase wire. This means that a wiring error will leave the whole house live, when it is switched off. This happened to me here (the UK standards are used here). An "engineer" from the electricity company changed the wiring to my meter (all covered in lead-sealed compartments) and inverted the phase and neutral on our single-phase circuit. When I called them to complain that everything was live, they didn't believe me until another "engineer" got a shock from a circuit which was switched off.

2. A system called ring mains is used for house wiring. All the outlets in a house or part thereof are wired in a ring circuit, so that the copper section can be halved. If a fault isolates somewhere in the ring, it means that you can exceed the current rating of the wire causing overheating.

3. The plugs (not the sockets) have a fuse in them, always supplied at 13 A. No one ever changes the fuse to a 5 A or less, no matter the copper section of the cord or the consumption of the appliance. This means you have no valid protection, in many cases.

4. If the socket has been wired the wrong way, and the fuse blows, the appliance remains live.

5. The earth (ground) wire has a smaller section than the phase and neutral, so that a fault sending a hefty current along the earth wire will cause it to blow, before the phase wire.

I'd like to change the wiring of my house to Swiss ASE standards, but I can't because its illegal, even though safer.

Brian

[Tjalfe]

Originally posted by Ribbit
They may be lower voltage, but doesn't that mean you get higher currents out of them? The current is what's dangerous.

Mind you, I doubt it matters much when it's 13A vs. 26A or whatever.

Read up on Ohms Law.. yes you can pull more Amps from them than in Europe, but you need to have a smaller resistance too to do this. I am willing to bet that Europeans don't have much high resistance than North americans, rendering a shock from a 110V outlet less dangerous than one from a 230V one.

I=V/R

I=Current, V=Voltage, R=Resistance

[Tjalfe]

Originally posted by Topha
Dont know about the british, but here in germany the outlets (and the plugs as well) are very secure and leave an overall solid impression. The American outlets seem (to me) like they chose the cheapest possible solution. Maybe they are save, but they dont look like it and I dont like them

I have seen two types of outlets here.. the normal ones ( $0.59CDN each) and the "Decora" ones ( $1.29 each) .. they are defenitely cheaper made than the european ones, but the decora ones especially are pretty sturdy.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Brian Ellis
...
3. The plugs (not the sockets) have a fuse in them, always supplied at 13 A. No one ever changes the fuse to a 5 A or less, no matter the copper section of the cord or the consumption of the appliance. This means you have no valid protection, in many cases.

4. If the socket has been wired the wrong way, and the fuse blows, the appliance remains live.

Brian

Doesn't the curcuit it's self have a breaker (or fuse)?

US houses are generaly broken up into several protected 20A circuits.
Plus seperate breakers for high loads like AC , clothes driers, electric ranges, etc.
The banks of circuit breakers are then protected by a couple of large breakers.
2 x 100A in the case of our house.

When we bought our house though, the AC compressor was wired direct to the meter!
We wouldn't sign the papers untill the seller had that fixed.
Chuck

[Tjalfe]

Originally posted by cjolley

When we bought our house though, the AC compressor was wired direct to the meter!

Would have been OK, had it been wired to the other side of the meter.. free AC

[cjolley]

Originally posted by tjalfe
Would have been OK, had it been wired to the other side of the meter.. free AC

Well, not exactly free if you count the burned down house.
Chuck

[Novdid]

Originally posted by GT98
Talking about European Toilets....whats the deal with the "Shit shelf" that you see in Toilets? American Toilets don't have that and I remember that being a bitch to clean LOL

That's a german thing my friend. The only positive thing about it is possibly that you can carefully examine what left you before flushing it out!

About the eating habits, we in the northern part of europe (nordic, german, british) are well on our way to americanizing our way of eating. The french and the others in the south have much better eating habits than what we up here have developed the last couple of years, and it shows when you walk the streets!

BTW, when are we going to realise that Americans and Europeans are exactly the same, albeit with small and very subtle differences?

[Tjalfe]

Originally posted by cjolley
Well, not exactly free if you count the burned down house.
Chuck

True.. but you could always add a fuse yourself and if all else fails, claim it on insurance

[cjolley]

Originally posted by tjalfe
True.. but you could always add a fuse yourself and if all else fails, claim it on insurance

Hmmmm......
Seemed easier to just let the seller fix it.

Plus I wasn't going to go near the thing.
There was an inline cut off switch between the meter and the compressor, but the switch was 10 feet from the meter. With no way to cut off the electricity to the switch but pull the meter.
You simply do not buy a house with that sort of fault.
Chuck

[Greebe]

I'd have talked them down in price and fixed myself

Tho they really should have been smacked down by the Utilities for pulling that stunt