They get the money, we get the problems.

[KvHagedorn]

Another idiot who bought his equipment online and expects us to answer all sorts of questions about it and why won't it do what he expects it to. I am so sick and ****ing tired of people who will NOT buy from an added-value retailer no matter what, yet have no problems with calling them for free tech advice/support. We have to make a living, and if we don't do it by selling equipment, we don't do it. So take your ****ing crap elsewhere.. ask the ****ing machine you bought it from why you can't hook you phono directly to that receiver, or the minimum wage highschool girl at best buy or whatever.

If this is you, you are an idiot and deserve to die, because if we go out of business, THEN who you gonna call? ****ing ****oles.

[dZeus]

can't the shop provide 'installation service / helpdesk' at good prices? When I was working in computer sales, there was a reasonable demand for that sort of stuff (i.e. for paid advice/service).

I think sales of stuff will go more and more towards internet sales by e-shops which sell very high volume at low margins. No real way to beat them other than on the service department (and most people are willing to pay for that if they like the service).

[schmosef]

I hear where you're coming from.

I encourage customers to buy from Dell if they don't want to pay the higher price of our minimum recommended spec. But we make it clear that we'll be charging them for support.

I don't know your business dynamics so it might not be feasable but can you not make it store policy to charge a basic flat fee for this kind of value added service (eg., $15 for every 15 minutes of phone support, billed directly to a credit card)? With staged rates for extra services or at home support?

We charge such customers a consulting fee but offer to credit all or a portion (depending on the circumstances) back if they buy something over a certain amount within the next month. We've never had any complaints and it's actualy made quite a few sales. It has turned a lot of people away too, but I don't want those kind of customers anyway.

A lot of times people who didn't buy their computer from us end up hiring us to setup their home network, which is much more profitable anyway. In the computer industry, the profit margin is in the service fees, not in the unit sales.

Sometimes, I wish I sold mattresses. The profit margin in that industry is measured in the 100s of percent. I read a case study on a Canadian chain called "Sleep Country Canada" and was blown away.

[KvHagedorn]

dz, You are so extremely off base here it isn't even funny. We can't make a living charging $20 whenever someone comes in asking some stupid question. We do the bulk of our business in custom installation, and when someone we are doing a massive installation for tries to shop us comparing graymarket stuff online, we just have to tell them to buy it from us or it's the highway. We don't rip you off and sell equipment for more than it's worth. You are slithering slime if you buy new audio equipment online, period. Especially if you went and auditioned it at a store that sells it first. Guess you just don't have the communication skills to ask for a good deal from the dealer. ..but most computer geeks of today are so clueless about what really makes stuff sound good that they throw numbers and high-tech features into columns and the one with the most is automatically the best, so why actually go to a PROFESSIONAL and find out the real deal? Anyone here see themselves in this picture? Thought so.

[az]

I absolutely agree with Schomsef and deezee, but I can understand your anger - this mentality has also found a lot of fans here in germany.

AZ

[KvHagedorn]

Schmosef,

In the audio industry, people just would not pay for advice. They are so used to getting it for nothing from overly-kind people like us, they just don't value it. We can't afford to be overly kind when people don't buy from us anymore, though. If they had a ****ing clue, they would realize that we don't price our stuff any higher than other people do, if it is the same equipment for the same level of service by which I mean, you actually get a warranty and someone to take it to if it breaks, which is the minimum someone should expect. This means we match prices from Best Buy or Circuit City or any other real store, as long as it's the same or similar equipment. We aren't stupid or stubborn. I think the real problem is that people have been trained by megacorps to feel comfortable only when they are a cog in some big consumerist rote game, which ends by giving the megacorp your money and expecting no real service or expertise with this purchase.

[dZeus]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
dz, You are so extremely off base here it isn't even funny. We can't make a living charging $20 whenever someone comes in asking some stupid question. We do the bulk of our business in custom installation, and when someone we are doing a massive installation for tries to shop us comparing graymarket stuff online, we just have to tell them to buy it from us or it's the highway. We don't rip you off and sell equipment for more than it's worth. You are slithering slime if you buy new audio equipment online, period. Especially if you went and auditioned it at a store that sells it first. Guess you just don't have the communication skills to ask for a good deal from the dealer. ..but most computer geeks of today are so clueless about what really makes stuff sound good that they throw numbers and high-tech features into columns and the one with the most is automatically the best, so why actually go to a PROFESSIONAL and find out the real deal? Anyone here see themselves in this picture? Thought so.

I don't know who you are getting angry at (me? the clueless buyers?), but I'm just voicing a development. People tend to buy the cheapest there is without thinking about consequences in quality or service. There's a reason WallMart is as big as they are.

While the reasons for buying at those e-tailers may be immoral/unethical, there's not much do to stop them other than to try and compete with them on grounds that they can't (i.e. service, expertise).

[schmosef]

I guess what I'm saying is that in my experience, customers are dumb and don't appreciate the skill and knowledge that is associated with professional service. It's nothing to get mad at; it's just human nature to compare apples to oranges when you don't perceive the difference.

We are very careful with what advice we'll give for free so as not to devalue our service offering. We let customers learn the hard way that they need us. The ones who don't learn, we don't need. The ones who do learn, we keep for life.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
.but most computer geeks of today are so clueless about what really makes stuff sound good

Yeah, but most of the stereo salesmen seem to be "audiophiles" that don't understand the technology behind their product, and make up black magic.

I bought my stereo from a local audio store, but as we were closing up the sale, I nearly fell over laughing as the sales guy was telling me about a problem with a custom install that was caused by not "breaking in" the SPD/IF cable.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by dZeus
People tend to buy the cheapest there is without thinking about consequences in quality or service.

Generally because there is no longer a difference in the quality or service. These are the first things companies tend to cut when they're looking for a bigger profit margin, and it's rare to actually find good support, or get what was promised to you.

[dZeus]

exactly. And in my experience, good service and expertise will sell itself through mouth-to-mouth advertisement (at least in sales branches with high-turnover rate like computer branche. Audio branche might be a lot more 'difficult' because people tend to keep the same stuff for a long time).

[HomeBrewer]

KvH you are spot on, at least with audiophile equipment.

Thanks to some your suggestions you gave me last summer I auditioned and purchased my home theater setup at my local audio speciality store. It was the smartest thing I could ever do for such a big (and expensive) purchase.

FYI I purchased a Yamaha RXV1400 Receiver and mated it to a Paradigm (which are not available for online purchase) sound setup : Monotor 5s (mains), CC-370 (center), ADP-370s (surrounds) and PW2200 sub.

Thanks again!

[schmosef]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Schmosef,

In the audio industry, people just would not pay for advice. They are so used to getting it for nothing from overly-kind people like us, they just don't value it. We can't afford to be overly kind when people don't buy from us anymore, though. If they had a ****ing clue, they would realize that we don't price our stuff any higher than other people do, if it is the same equipment for the same level of service by which I mean, you actually get a warranty and someone to take it to if it breaks, which is the minimum someone should expect. This means we match prices from Best Buy or Circuit City or any other real store, as long as it's the same or similar equipment. We aren't stupid or stubborn. I think the real problem is that people have been trained by megacorps to feel comfortable only when they are a cog in some big consumerist rote game, which ends by giving the megacorp your money and expecting no real service or expertise with this purchase.

Just last month a friend of mine's mom called us to buy a laser printer.

I was busy at the time so my business partner handled it. He gave her tonnes of free advice because of my relationship with her daugher. In the end she ordered the printer but was leaving for vacation and promised to call us when she got back to arrange delivery and installation.

Several weeks went by and we didn't hear from her so my business partner called her. It seems that she got cold feet and planned to buy from a big box store but didn't respect us enough to call and cancel the order.

She actually said that she believed she'd get better long term service from Futureshop (any Canadian will understand how absurd this is!). The insult to me personally is further compounded by the fact that a few months ago I successfully cleaned the spyware off her computer, at her daughter's request, after Futureshop's service department gave up and recommended a re-install. I didn't charge for that pervious service so she obviously didn't perceive any value in what I did.

So we were stuck with a printer that we had to pay to ship back to the distributor.

I'm annoyed, but the truth is we should have known better. We've learned time and time again that people are programmed by the multi million dollar advertising budgets of the chain stores and rather than bang our heads against the system, we've had to carve a niche for ourselves.

Ultimately, if we don't respect the value in our service, neither will our customer. So we charge for everything. Even if it's just a few dollars. The customer ends up learning that there's value in what we do and it usually leads to more sales in the future.

At the same time, my industry is different than yours and I can't dictate business advice to you.

I know that I've gone stereo shopping at some ostensibly high-end stores and gotten advice from "specialists" that's just been plain wrong. When I find someone who's actually knowledgable, I stay with them.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by dZeus
I don't know who you are getting angry at (me? the clueless buyers?), but I'm just voicing a development. People tend to buy the cheapest there is without thinking about consequences in quality or service. There's a reason WallMart is as big as they are.

While the reasons for buying at those e-tailers may be immoral/unethical, there's not much do to stop them other than to try and compete with them on grounds that they can't (i.e. service, expertise).

Sorry for getting angry and lashing out, but the immense foolishness of this mentality and how thoroughly it is ruining business for everyone really pisses me off. There are people I know who wouldn't even think of us when it came to buying a TV or piece of equipment. That's a serious problem. They are trained by the "big box" retailers to shop at no store smaller than a city block in size. You call this a development, as if its value were neutral, though. Stalinism was a development, too.

[Sasq]

It is something we are all guilty of, where do you get your P.C. equipment from? the local shop or newegg?