They get the money, we get the problems.

[dZeus]

note that development isn't the same as 'evolution', hence it's not necessary positive or 'neutral' for that matter. I agree that it's foolish but there's ration in it as well. Many small shops have salesmen that sprout BS marketing talks as many have told here in this thread, and overcharge as well (of course, unless you demand a 'deal' from them, which people who are unfamiliar with this sort of business don't and thus get overcharged). That's why most people will just opt for the cheapest option and get service/expertise elsewhere when needed.

What I'm saying is that you can get angry at what's happening but that's not going to change anything. Often the only way to change anything is to adapt.

[KvHagedorn]

You've made a really good point, Schmosef. I will talk to the owner here and see if we can get some sort of billing going for advice, etc. It probably won't happen, since he's too nice a guy and sometimes chaotic in applying policy, plus I know how people are when you ask them for money for such things.. I refuse to let anyone go out and help install equipment bought elsewhere now, since we have usually been shortchanged by such people in the past. I would love to have a lawyer buddy who would send them notice that if they don't pay the billed amount, they will have charges filed against them for theft of services. Human nature is really not a pretty thing sometimes. Amazing how low your friend's mother behaved without even thinking. People really are programmed like this. What we need is just a store that looks like a clone of Circuit City/Best Buy. That might help.

[az]

I think shmosef's suggestion is really good. Charge for service, so customers know that service is WORTH something (because if you do it for free: a. it's obviously not worth charging for, and b. they get it for free, so why should they pay for it by shopping for higher prices at your store), but at the same time let it be known that this kind of service is included at no additional cost when they buy from you, and that they may get a nice deal (=some of their service cost back) when they buy something from you in the next, say, 1 to 3 months (and bring the service receipt), and that service extends from before the purchase (listening, taking time to make the right recommendation) to after (setup, problems, warranty etc.).
That way, you don't lose time and money by doing service for free, you teach customers that service is worth paying for, and you even win a few customers over from the big chains.

BTW, are there no minimum warranty laws in the US?

AZ

[gt40]

Unfortunetly, charging for advice/service will never work - it will just keep people out of the store.
Your best bet is to offer your advice/expertise and hope they will come to you next the next time.
If you are too busy to help them, then politely explain you can help them with their own equipment when all your other customers have been served.

[KvHagedorn]

"I'll help you with your rigging your Bose crap when I'm done picking my nose here.."

[schmosef]

Originally posted by gt40
Unfortunetly, charging for advice/service will never work - it will just keep people out of the store.
Your best bet is to offer your advice/expertise and hope they will come to you next the next time.
If you are too busy to help them, then politely explain you can help them with their own equipment when all your other customers have been served.

I guess it's a matter of philosphy. I don't want the type of people who don't want to pay for service "in my store".

It depends on your business model.

The niche I've carved for myself doesn't require that I push boxes. We're quite comfortable developing our steadily growing loyal customer base through a service based revenue model.

[DGhost]

When working at a local computer shop, I would help *to a point*. if it was *our* equipment I might try to troubleshoot over the phone. using my judgement. However, when it hit a point where it wasn't doing anything I always simply told them that I would have to see it to say anything.

"At this point there are too many different possibilities that it could be. I would have to see the set-up/computer/etc in person to be able to say for certain."

we didn't do on site service. if they brought the system in and let us look at us, they knew there might be a service charge associated. if we chose not to charge for labor, ie - a 5 minute fix, then fine - it is all good but they still understood that we *chose* not to charge them. and they still had to bring the computer in to us.

having the customer yield control of the situation over to you is often the first step. having customers understand that you are in control of the situation helps. a lot of people don't want to do it.

[agallag]

If I could actually find someone in an audio store that really knew what they were talking about, I would definitely be a loyal customer.

However, in my local high-end audio store, one of the sales monkies tried to tell me that a coax spdif cable has a "warmer sound" than an optical spdif cable. Riiight.

I bought my B&Ws from them anyway, in spite of this. Mostly because they aren't available at any big box stores. Also, I'm sure down the road, if I need it, I'll get better service from the local shop. I just have to find a better local shop for my future purchases.

I do agree with everything you're saying though, KvH. It's plain rude to ask someone for professional help and then get angry when they ask to be paid for the service. I probably wouldn't get quite as angry as you (I'd just explain to them that specialized help isn't available to non-customers), but it's totally understandable. I'd certainly come here and complain about it loudly afterwards.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Sasq
It is something we are all guilty of, where do you get your P.C. equipment from? the local shop or newegg?

That's a good point, but I have never gone to my local shop asking technical questions about my newegg purchase. (I reserve that annoyance for my kind friends here. )

Computer retailers may have certain advantages, though the time that can be wasted by computer customers is really infinite. There are a large number of people (and businesses) who NEED the full service of a local computer shop and will pay to get it. In our case, the average human being thinks if they just buy Sony and Bose and toss them in their living room they are getting the best, and adamantly defend this delusion.

I do agree that some "audiophiles" have strange ideas about certain things.. cables being the big one. There is no reason any form of transport for digital data should have a "warmer" sound than any other. He is just discrediting himself by saying that, and in an obvious way. Coaxial digital cables are preferable over optical for two reasons.. they are more durable and make a more certain connection. Even then, as long as things are working, no biggie. There are some practical cable ideas, though.. bi-wiring really is a better way to go if possible, if the speakers are designed to be bi-wired. And thicker is always better for speaker cable. Get the thickest oxygen free copper speaker wires you can and everything will be fine. I just recently got a pair of 802s and have them bi-wired with 9 gauge on the bass and 12 gauge on the mid/treble. It's just normal OFC speaker wire, though.

Anyhow, thanks to all for kindly listening to my rant.

[The PIT]

We get a few people ringing up our University helpdesk for non functioning computer equipment they bought elsewhere. They get very annoyed when we tell them to contact the supplier.

One person got ripped off at a car boot sale but it was our fault that we couldn't fix the pc.

[High_Jumbllama]

There two reasons I would help fix someone's computer or stuff when I use to work as a lab assistant at the University of Hartford. They were going to spread their virus infected floppy around until they found a machine that worked or she was very cute.