London again, terrorist...boom?

[RichL]

OK, I'll explain my story a little. Background, I have written, both fiction and non-fiction, in the past. I can put words together to get a story across. And I can get paid well to do so.

Paid well by who? The tabloid press?

Your story is a work of pure fiction with and the parallel with actual events is tenuous at best and rather sensationalistic at all points.

I fail to see how it adds anything to this discussion except confusion.

[Sasq]

Paid well by who? The tabloid press?

Your story is a work of pure fiction with and the parallel with actual events is tenuous at best and rather sensationalistic at all points.

I fail to see how it adds anything to this discussion except confusion.

RichL, yes his writing is a work of pure fiction.
It appears, so are several news reports.

[Brian Ellis]

Brian, don't you agree that making up stories of girls getting gang raped leads us no further to the truth?

Sorry, Schmo, I understood at the first reading what Paul was saying and trying (in vain, judging from your reaction) to tell you about the danger of having armed cops, possibly with inadequate training, being trigger-happy. At the time that I read it, I thought the analogy was good to take it out of context from the current events.

[Brian Ellis]

RichL, yes his writing is a work of pure fiction.
It appears, so are several news reports.

[badpauly]

Paid well by who? The tabloid press?

Actually it was in the area of IT and sport, but that is beside the point.

Your story is a work of pure fiction with and the parallel with actual events is tenuous at best and rather sensationalistic at all points.

I fail to see how it adds anything to this discussion except confusion.

I believe you have read far too much into a small part of the story, and completely missed the rest of it.

[badpauly]

RichL, yes his writing is a work of pure fiction.
It appears, so are several news reports.

As with any big story, the only thing you can believe in the first 24 hours is that something has happened.

After then, you can start filtering the facts from the BS.

And trust me, eye-witness reports, or quotes from people at the scene, are rarely as they seem.

[RichL]

RichL, yes his writing is a work of pure fiction.
It appears, so are several news reports.

I'll take official fiction with a grounding in actuality over sensationalist irrelevance, thanks.

[badpauly]

I'll take official fiction with a grounding in actuality over sensationalist irrelevance, thanks.

So you would believe bullshit over bullshit?

Man, maybe the human race DOES need a cleanout.

[Umfriend]

Aside from having been extremely busy, the main reason I have not said anything on this sofar is that I really felt there was simply no reliable information available to the public aside from the fact that someone was shot dead. I have to say that the purpose of badpauly's story seems pretty obvious and to the point. Sure, it may well be that the "analogy" is "wrong", but to be able to say so, you'd have to know what is "right" about the real event.

As far as writing a similar piece from the policements' perspective is concerned: We will never know the story from the dead guy's perspective cause, well, erhm, he's dead. No one should write a similar piece from the policemens' perspective EXCEPT FOR THE POLICE (who are not dead BTW). As far as I know, there is to date no concise account of what happened or why. Such account should be given, and quickly IMO.

[schmosef]

spelling

Paul, I really apologise that I don't have time to debate this with you properly. I'd like nothing more than to pick apart everything you've said and lay bare the nonesense for all to see. I'll have to leave that for later.

Let me ask you a question... Assuming that the facts are sketchy at best and that we'll really not know more until the dust settles, how does what your wrote help (or even attempt to help) to explain the motivations of either the police or Jean Charles de Menezes?

Yes yes, I understand quite well the motivations of the girl in the context that you presented. Let's be clear. I'm asking about Jean Charles, which you'll have to agree, is an entirely different situation (death squads being what they are in the UK).

[badpauly]

Aside from having been extremely busy, the main reason I have not said anything on this sofar is that I really felt there was simply no reliable information available to the public aside from the fact that someone was shot dead. I have to say that the purpose of badpauly's story seems pretty obvious and to the point. Sure, it may well be that the "analogy" is "wrong", but to be able to say so, you'd have to know what is "right" about the real event.

As far as writing a similar piece from the policements' perspective is concerned: We will never know the story from the dead guy's perspective cause, well, erhm, he's dead. No one should write a similar piece from the policemens' perspective EXCEPT FOR THE POLICE (who are not dead BTW). As far as I know, there is to date no concise account of what happened or why. Such account should be given, and quickly IMO.

Cheers.

[schmosef]

Aside from having been extremely busy, the main reason I have not said anything on this sofar is that I really felt there was simply no reliable information available to the public aside from the fact that someone was shot dead. I have to say that the purpose of badpauly's story seems pretty obvious and to the point. Sure, it may well be that the "analogy" is "wrong", but to be able to say so, you'd have to know what is "right" about the real event.

As far as writing a similar piece from the policements' perspective is concerned: We will never know the story from the dead guy's perspective cause, well, erhm, he's dead. No one should write a similar piece from the policemens' perspective EXCEPT FOR THE POLICE (who are not dead BTW). As far as I know, there is to date no concise account of what happened or why. Such account should be given, and quickly IMO.

Jeers!

Whatever Jean Charles' motivations were I think it's quite safe to rule out fear of gang rape and fear of death squad.

Quite safe indeed.

[badpauly]

Cheers.

I wasn't attempting to get into the mind of Jean Charles de Menezes, or those of the police.

I was trying to get people to thing that maybe they shouldn't be so quick to jump in with the "he deserved it" posts when;

A. The facts weren't known
B. All that was known was generated by a PR company (known as the police).

I wanted people to think about the situation, to personalise it, and to maybe consider that all wasn't as it seemed.

A reason to think, not an attempt to insert facts. Part of why it was a female in my story.

[RichL]

Actually it was in the area of IT and sport, but that is beside the point.

I believe you have read far too much into a small part of the story, and completely missed the rest of it.

If you're trying to draw an analogy between a woman being followed and fearing being gang raped and a man being followed and fearing, well we don't know what but I think gang rape is low on the list tbh, personally I don't think it's relevent to the discussion.
If you're also trying to make a point about people speaking ill of the dead, it's not going to work in this case.

If Mr DeMenezes had been arrested and spend several hours under interrogation before being released, people would say "What an idiot, running from armed cops into a tube station so soon after a bomb scare. He's lucky he didnt get shot dead."
As it is, he didnt get lucky and did get dead. His state of mortality has little relevence on the fact that running from armed police during a bomb scare is a stupid thing to do.

The only difference between a live fool and a dead fool is temperature, and usually altitude.

[badpauly]

Jeers!

Whatever Jean Charles' motivations were I think it's quite safe to rule out fear of gang rape and fear of death squad.

Quite safe indeed.

We maybe can rule out rape, but I wouldn't be so sure of the "death-squad".

A number of governments, including those friendly to ours, have police units who are basically free to do what they wish.

There are also groups who provide protection to those that pay.

For some people these are alien views, as they don't appear to occur where you are. But for some they are a part of daily life.