Dad punches "teacher": Right or Wrong?

[Umfriend]

At least here, you hear about the false accusations, they usually create MUCH more noise than the real things, because everybody is fuming at it. False accusations here are angering people not because someone was falsly accused, but because when a real rape happens, the poor girl goes in for a second 'rape' in the interrogation, trying to disprove her making it all up..

But this guy was not accused by the police, was he? Are you saying that an accusation reported AT school gets into the media already?

[TransformX]

Here - yes. False accusations usually get to the media faster than the real ones. Real ones take time to come out, and then the police requests the court for a warrant to keep the details covered till the end of the investigation/trial.

[Sasq]

Well, you'd find my life a bit harder to ruin than with just false allegations. Maybe some people are THAT fragile, maybe they have families that don't support them, well - that's not MY problem.

edit: now please answer my questions about the "colatteral damages" from Gurm's example and about suspects arrested by the police if you will?

Well, lets review this whole case shall we.

Supposed molestation occurs Thursday.
Parents report it via telephone some time Monday.
Go in early tue morning to lodge official complaint.

The school was meant to pull the teacher on the basis of a phone call? could have been the girls BF pretenting to be the father.

Teacher should be pulled, on the basis of a single phone call?

I am, and have allways been refering to this particular incident. where you, and others were ready to lynch the TA without knowing all the facts.

If a complaint is made, and there is some basis to it, of course the teacher should be pulled.
However in this case, the school had no real complaint or any facts to deal with, at least until the parents and child met with school officials to explain what had happened.

So, the only colatteral damages I see at this point, is that of the TA.

Regarding you answer TX, you obviously have never had those allegations made aginst you. and lets hope they never are. you will find however, that it is surprising how much they can and will affect your life.

edit: missed some grammar

[TransformX]

Dan,

If I had to choose between having someone I care for being raped, and being falsly accused of raping someone, I'd obviously choose the second. Know why?
You can't turn back time, but you can disprove false accusations, you can clear your name, even if partially, you can usually sue for damages. Rape and-or murder are a one way ticket.

[Sasq]

Dan,

If I had to choose between having someone I care for being raped, and being falsly accused of raping someone, I'd obviously choose the second. Know why?
You can't turn back time, but you can disprove false accusations, you can clear your name, even if partially, you can usually sue for damages. Rape and-or murder are a one way ticket.

So can vigilanti justice.

[TransformX]

Teacher should be pulled, on the basis of a single phone call?

I am, and have allways been refering to this particular incident. where you, and others were ready to lynch the TA without knowing all the facts.

If a complaint is made, and there is some basis to it, of course the teacher should be pulled.
However in this case, the school had no real complaint or any facts to deal with, at least until the parents and child met with school officials to explain what had happened.

I'm not for lynching anyone, but there WAS an administrative failure here. At least according to local laws, the police should have been there too, not just the school administration and parents. The teacher should have been there too and not teaching as usual. Such allegations aren't something to be 'dealt with later'.

edit: No matter who made the phone call or why, even if it's a stupid prank, rape, murder etc aren't something to be taken lightly.

[Sasq]

I'm not for lynching anyone, but there WAS an administrative failure here. At least according to local laws, the police should have been there too, not just the school administration and parents. The teacher should have been there too and not teaching as usual. Such allegations aren't something to be 'dealt with later'.

edit: No matter who made the phone call or why, even if it's a stupid prank, rape, murder etc aren't something to be taken lightly.

No, according to local laws, the police must be informed when a complaint is lodged (afaik) thats what they were doing that morning.

It is also entierly possible, the school had already viewed the survalence tape, and knew the teacher was someplace else at a different time.

It is also customer for the student to give details, and lodge the complaint in 'private' so as not to be intimidated by the teacher/person concerned. So no, the teacher should 'not' have been there, no matter how much dear old dad wanted to confront him.

I may not be across the American School system, but I was a teacher, I have a pretty good idea of the checks and balances involved with the system.

Adminstrative failure, maybe, maybe not. But you are showing that you have no problem, with the father taking justice in his own hands. Even if the teacher/person is inocent. That is what I am taking issue with.

No, rape, murder etc should not be taken lightly. nor should ignoring the local laws, so you can avenge your daughters honor.

[az]

TX, it's disgusting how you mix these two cases just because you can't admit to yourself that you're wrong.

In this case, a meeting was held less than 24 hours after a complaint was filed, people were heard, an innocent man was punched, his name released to the public and dragged in the mud, I can guarantee you that >50% of the people who've heard of his case won't remember him being cleared of the charges - this includes possible future employers, etc. - and in the end it was found that a girl made this shit up, but apparently the father as well as you knew that "my daughter does not lie to me.". And if you beat up some other innocents, maybe they "would crawl back under rocks where they belong". Father of the year, indeed.

In Gurm's case, for several years, nothing was reported (and no one being punched, either) despite people apparently knowing or strongly suspecting what was going on for a few years (!). One girl came forward, nothing happened (in contrast to the case at hand, where a meeting was called within less than a day). Favoritism of the ugliest sort made it necessary that more girls came forward with what had been done to them, and parents and the community had to escalate things, because obviously there wasn't a conference within 24 hours, or any reaction for that matter. Apparently this guy has been found guilty and served time without the need of somebody punching him before his trial.

[TransformX]

I am saying this:
The father was hot-headed and it is expected when a father hears his child, be it daughter or son has been sexually molested.
He got into a heated argument with the teacher, something that shouldn't have happened.
He punched him, OH-MY-GAWD, he used physical violence (!!!) - sorry, a punch is no big deal in my books, pluse - he'll be charged for assault, justice has/will be made for that. Worse things happen for worse reasons, you'd be raging mad too if you'll learn your child/niece/whatever was sexually assaulted.
You can argue it back and forth for as long as you want. This story ended with the teacher being the good guy, the girls being the bad guys and the father being stupid and hot headed in the middle.
Other stories end differently. Can't blame the father for being hot-headed, nor for favoring his child's words above all else.
If the same thing would've happened to me, I'd call a lawyer, the police, the press and anything I can on the school and the teacher. If found wrong, I'd make an ass of myself and pay for it. That's life, I'm a grownup and I understand cause and consenquence. Then again, if I'd learn that my child wasn't the first and that other parents and the administration kept it silent long enough for my child to get hurt, I seriously might start punching some people around. Then again, that's me.

[Brian Ellis]

Watching videos of people being tortured ane executed, while his sons continue raping and murderingAnd I'm the one being called a chauvinist pig?See my last comment. Instead of being happy the girl has a good mind and is capable to defent her principles, you claim she's supposed to be more docile. Or maybe like that girl that was gang-raped in Pakistan and didn't commint suicide like other girls usually do and she was supposed to
No they didn't, the parents came to the school to discuss the subject, so it was already well knownNo, the man might be charged for assault, that means he has to pay bail...
And you've served time in prison to know that, right?
Same for Iran, right?

Sorry, but such a response has nothing to do with the case. You really are paranoid if you equate Middle East problems with this.

[Umfriend]

I am saying this:
The father was hot-headed and it is expected when a father hears his child, be it daughter or son has been sexually molested.
He got into a heated argument with the teacher, something that shouldn't have happened.
He punched him, OH-MY-GAWD, he used physical violence (!!!) - sorry, a punch is no big deal in my books, pluse - he'll be charged for assault, justice has/will be made for that. Worse things happen for worse reasons, you'd be raging mad too if you'll learn your child/niece/whatever was sexually assaulted.
You can argue it back and forth for as long as you want. This story ended with the teacher being the good guy, the girls being the bad guys and the father being stupid and hot headed in the middle.
Other stories end differently. Can't blame the father for being hot-headed, nor for favoring his child's words above all else.
If the same thing would've happened to me, I'd call a lawyer, the police, the press and anything I can on the school and the teacher. If found wrong, I'd make an ass of myself and pay for it. That's life, I'm a grownup and I understand cause and consenquence. Then again, if I'd learn that my child wasn't the first and that other parents and the administration kept it silent long enough for my child to get hurt, I seriously might start punching some people around. Then again, that's me.

This is becoming extremely hard to take seriously. Just cause you've been kickboxing (you know, where one trains to punch, evade, endure and then fight for fun/sport) does not mean you can simply downplay physical assault. An assault as found l8er based on false accusation by a daughter that never lies to him. Man, sorry, but you ARE thick (in this). None of us "PC-types" is arguing this back and forth - you are. You need to take severe cases to defend your position in this one, which is (as usual) significantly different from the "precedents" and/or "examples" you choose to use. You use them again and again cause, face it, if you would look at this case only, you'd see you're wrong as clear as day.

You say you can understand cause and consequence and can take it when you make an ass of yourself and get charged for assault or battery or whatnot. The fact that you can't even face your friggin wrong in this single debate makes me seriously doubt that statement. I imagine that this brave language can be used to downplay *anything* BTW.

Still, I wonder, how would you react to your daughter after you have shouted at a TA in class, pupils present, punched him (and even a mildly decent kickboxer can be expected to do quit a bit more damage then a run-of-the-mill person), told the world your daughter never lies to you only to find out that, well, she has...?

[Umfriend]

Oh, and the guy will come of with a clean sheet if he's innocent, right?
http://www.wtsp.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=24494 - it continues. What will stick I wonder. I _think_ the father is as thick as someone else I sortof know.

[Tjalfe]

I If found wrong, I'd make an ass of myself and pay for it. That's life, I'm a grownup and I understand cause and consenquence. .

sounds like you have the first part covered already

[TransformX]

This is becoming extremely hard to take seriously. Just cause you've been kickboxing (you know, where one trains to punch, evade, endure and then fight for fun/sport) does not mean you can simply downplay physical assault. An assault as found l8er based on false accusation by a daughter that never lies to him. Man, sorry, but you ARE thick (in this). None of us "PC-types" is arguing this back and forth - you are. You need to take severe cases to defend your position in this one, which is (as usual) significantly different from the "precedents" and/or "examples" you choose to use. You use them again and again cause, face it, if you would look at this case only, you'd see you're wrong as clear as day.

The father was hot-headed, which from my point of view is understandable, even if wrong.
Some people drive over the speed limit, some park where they shouldn't, others get extremely angry when they feel their beloved ones are threatened or hurt. Nobody's perfect. I won't go into what's worse.
About the kickboxing, I've been beaten at school years before I started going to Kickboxing (it was one of the reasons) and no, I don't use it to attack people, never did. I did 'use' it to endure attacks from people without getting myself overly hurt or getting things escalated.

You say you can understand cause and consequence and can take it when you make an ass of yourself and get charged for assault or battery or whatnot. The fact that you can't even face your friggin wrong in this single debate makes me seriously doubt that statement. I imagine that this brave language can be used to downplay *anything* BTW.

I'm saying that I wouldn't punch so quickly, but I would act on it and I can understand people becoming violent against whom they preceive (even if wrongly) as being violent against a beloved one. Again, I can't blame the father for acting this way, the court of law can and will, but that's another issue.

Still, I wonder, how would you react to your daughter after you have shouted at a TA in class, pupils present, punched him (and even a mildly decent kickboxer can be expected to do quit a bit more damage then a run-of-the-mill person), told the world your daughter never lies to you only to find out that, well, she has...?

Like I said, I wouldn't punch, I'd do worse, I'd call my lawyer, the press, police etc. right in front of her. If she'd had the heart of letting me doing all of this to back her up when she's basically telling lies, I'll have to find a way to deal with it later, that's not the kind of education I'll give my children in the first place (to lie).

[TransformX]

sounds like you have the first part covered already

Excuse me while I ignore you.