The State of The Union

[cjolley]

FYI: the US can grow massive amounts of the crops necessary to produce ethanol....more than enough to meet this need...

Not that I'm against the idea of trying, but some conservation will be needed.
We would have to cover ALL of Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico with Switch Grass to get completely off of gas using it.

Bush is just pathologically averse to the idea of conservation.



PS My father in law was a "guest" in a German POW camp.
His P39 was shot down.
He won't even talk about his time there.

[Claymonkey]

Not that I'm against the idea of trying, but some conservation will be needed.
We would have to cover ALL of Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico with Switch Grass to get completely off of gas using it.

Bush is just pathologically averse to the idea of conservation.

Not that I disagree but from what I understand all cars made by american based manufacturers (not just cars made in america ,so Ford, Chevy, GM) made after a certain date, say... I think ten years ago (could totally be misremembering a NPR story) could run off of ethenol right now. They do this so that they can say the car gets 75mpg if it runs of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas) and they get a better rating. This was just easier than making them more efficient.

[Dr Mordrid]

All US cars made for many years have been capable of running E10 (10% ethanol) and virtually all gas stations in the midwest and south carry it. Can't speak for the west and east, but I suspect they're not too far behind. We've been using it in our cars for ages.

Also: you don't need to cover Texas, OK and NM with swith grass. New tech's have been coming online that can do the conversion with existing plant wastes (stems from wheat, corn & other crops, garden wastes, wood chips etc) to the point where if just that were used we'd be up to our knees in ethanol.

Add hybrid corn and other plants engineered for the purpose and....

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

Do they even label E10 as such anymore?

I have heard a few people complain about it but I've never understood why.
Always seemed to work fine for me, through many types of cars.

[Dr Mordrid]

We don't call it E10 anymore, but that's what it is. It's either labeled "gasahol" or something similar and our cars run fantastic on it. Found this story from South Carolina. Guess they're getting E85 too;

http://thetandd.com/articles/2006/01/05/news/doc43bcb84c85b55967817509.txt

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

Suck it up.

Suck what up, illegal wiretapping? YEAH SIGN ME UP.

A president that believes that he creates the law, interprets the law, and enacts the law? WHAT A GOOD F***ING IDEA.

A president that never thinks, only believes? NO THANKS.

An elected theocracy? GOOD GOD NO.

[Lizzard[MPE]]

who will you vote for Gurm in the next election? if you dont mind me asking.. who do you think is fit to run this country next?

[schmosef]

Jeb!

[Ghostman]

I would vote for a female president!!

There would be no war, just sever negotiations every month

[Gurm]

who will you vote for Gurm in the next election? if you dont mind me asking.. who do you think is fit to run this country next?

No idea. It really depends. I'll probably vote for whoever the Democrats field, just on principle, unless it's Hillary in which case I'll just run screaming from the polls. I feel it entirely necessary to keep Hillary as far away from the White House as humanly possible at all times.

Uhh...

If McCain ran, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, don't even care which side he's on.

If it's two other people... well, whoever DOESN'T rely on their minister to make their policy decisions.

----------------

Also, it's disingenuous to say "fit to run this country". The president isn't SUPPOSED to "run the country". At least not according to the constitution! Then again, our current president can't READ the constitution... so it's no surprise he doesn't know that. We happen to have a preponderance of right-wing bible-thumping congressmen right now, and Bush really lucked out with this whole 9/11 thing. It was a terrible tragedy to most of us, but to him it was his ticket to re-election and his way into granting himself war powers (Patriot Act, anyone?).

It's like I have said before... the constitution sets up a 3-branch system so that no ONE presidential administration can completely ruin the country... but DAMN this administration is TRYING THEIR HARDEST!

[cjolley]

who will you vote for Gurm in the next election? if you dont mind me asking.. who do you think is fit to run this country next?

I'll vote for anyone that promises to fire all the incompetent buffoons that Bush has put in place administering our federal government.
And throw in the competent but evil ones too.

[cjolley]

[KvHagedorn]

I'll vote for anyone that promises to fire all the incompetent buffoons that Bush has put in place administering our federal government.
And throw in the competent but evil ones too.

And here I was thinking you were one of the few moderate Democrats left.

Truly, the people who need to be fired are as much a product of the corporate asskissing Clinton years as they are Republican appointees. We need to ream out the FCC and the FTC in particular, and take the government out of the hands of the megacorps. I would love to have the opportunity to vote for McCain IF THE GODDAMMED CORPORATIONS LET US!

[cjolley]

And here I was thinking you were one of the few moderate Democrats left.

Truly, the people who need to be fired are as much a product of the corporate asskissing Clinton years as they are Republican appointees...

Name a single Clinton executive appointee left in a position of responsibility by the Bush team.

[KvHagedorn]

I'm not a wonk, but I know certain things have NOT changed.

I know a lot of the trouble started with Clinton.. deregulation, free trade with China, NAFTA, etc.. all of which Bush enthusiatically supports as well. It was the clintonistas that started the "it's the economy, stupid" bullshit.. and a "better" economy always means more megacorps with more power and fewer opportunities for small business. Corporate asskissing is a bipartisan effort.

This thread is the sort of thing that concerns me most about our government.. that the only interests it sees are corporate interests and citizens are just seen as corporate vassals, which of course we have largely become through government action/inaction on our part.