Why there are helmet laws....

[KvHagedorn]

How about instant death penalty for non-compliance? We need a mechanism to cull stupidity..

[Sasq]

oh and just to make this clear, oz has had the helmet laws for pushies for a long time now.

Funny thing is, in oz the only bitch was low income families and being able to afford them. no body was insane enough to think that it was a reduction in kids or personal freedoms.

[Jessterw]

To a degree I can see arguing against mandatory helmet usage for bicyclists in some areas, but when one becomes part of the flow of traffic or, at the very least, engages in the use of transportation lanes (streets/roads, cycle paths, etc.) then there is no reason for one not to use a helmet. It is perfectly suitable for the law to require such use.

Has nothing to do with morals. Are we going to argue car/booster seat laws next?

[KvHagedorn]

Helmet and seatbelt laws are very good things.. this falls into the no-brainer category, like the law that school buses must stop at railroad tracks. The people who originally opposed this were Hell's Angels Harley types who thought it would make them look less tough. Should children suffer brain injury because some biker wants to look cool? pft. The majority of people NEED a nanny, sorry to say. And a lot of people NEED such a law to take common sense measures like helmets and seatbelts seriously. And a lot of those people are kids.

As an aside.. cars are required to come with safety belts.. why not require that all bikes be sold with helmets? That would address Dan's point about not being able to afford the helmet..

Another aside.. helmet laws mean big money for the people who make helmets.. the Solomon Solution to the affordability problem would be that these companies would use their government mandated boon to supply helmets to the poorest kids at a significantly reduced rate.

[Jessterw]

One would certainly hope so. We already have programs in place to provide low-cost or free/donated car seats to families who can't afford them (they are certainly not cheap). A few will even do so as replacements as for broken or incorrectly sized car seats.

Nevermind that many insurance providers offer rebates when you purchase a new car seat. Something like this from healthcare or life insurance providers would be great.

[Dr Mordrid]

A bike helmet entitlement? Pffftttt.....

You can get a good kids helmet for $15 - $20 USD, a small fraction of the cost of the bike and a third the cost of a carton of cigarettes. If your kids brain isn't worth that.....

Dr. Mordrid

[Jessterw]

Well the same could be said for car seats. Is your child's life/well being not worth the cost of one?

The point is that incentives can go a long way towards getting people to purchase and utilize helmets when they might not have otherwise.

Not every person in this world places their children above everything else. So I'd rather give them something in return for hopefully helping to provide their children with a little more safety. You can "pfft" that if you like.

[KvHagedorn]

Actually, my point is that the government just hands helmet manufacturers a HUGE amount of business by mandating helmet use. I wish the government would make everyone buy stuff from my store! If they asked that in return for this, I provide the dirt-poorest with a discount, I would consider it a fair trade. Of course, with the way government action/inaction is on the way to making 90% of us dirt poor.. maybe not. We need a minimum wage increase big time, which might entice more citizens to do the "jobs no one else wants" that politicians talk about when trying to justify the unabated flow of illegal immigrants. OK.. that's enough tangent for now..

[GNEP]

Regarding kids and pushbike helmets: when I grew up, nobody wore bike helmets. Hell, when I was a student very few did. Being fairly protective of my head, I really wouldn't have minded wearing one. But when you're the only kid wearing one, others tend to laugh at you. This thing called peer group pressure kinda gets in the way. And this coming from a reasonably intelligent, risk-averse person. So either legistlation forcing use or a concerted publicly-funded campaign to encourage use is, as others have said, a no-brainer. It would appear to have worked in this country. Nowadays, at least outside of the "rebel teenager" groups, it's the people not wearing a helmet that get the odd looks. Especially in traffic.

To be fair, for me it was 2 things that made me start wearing a helmet. First their increasing social acceptability and the disappearance of the idea that only wet people wore them. Second was cycling to the river with my rowing crew and never getting there because I ended up with one of their heads between my knees, his forehead cut to the bone, unconcious and starting to choke on his own blood whilst I applied a bit of first aid before the ambulance arrived. Luckily he was fine in the end, but a helmet would've saved him completely in this instance from anything but some minor grazing. (Incidentally he was so fine that fairly soon after he started up going out with a recent ex-long-term gf of mine... I had a few "issues" with that... )

[Sasq]

in that case I would suggest he was doubly lucky, 1) for not receiving a more permanent injury, and 2) for you not finishing the job.

[KvHagedorn]

Yeah.. good point there. Peer pressure is a serious issue, and you're right that few people (especially kids whose whole life is about trying to fit in) would wear helmets unless compelled to.

[Gurm]

So nobody is even a little concerned that next they'll be enforcing mandatory safe sex? 'Cuz you're far more likely to pick up syphillis or AIDS than you are to die falling off a bicycle while riding half a mile to school, after all.

And do you honestly believe that the law won't start requiring that we do these "sensible safety" things on our own property soon enough? When does it end?

[az]

You live in a democracy to empower the people to draw the line, Gurm. Do you honestly think such a silly law would get passed?

[Sasq]

So nobody is even a little concerned that next they'll be enforcing mandatory safe sex? 'Cuz you're far more likely to pick up syphillis or AIDS than you are to die falling off a bicycle while riding half a mile to school, after all.

And do you honestly believe that the law won't start requiring that we do these "sensible safety" things on our own property soon enough? When does it end?

no, no I don't, I think your just paranoid.

Really seriously, go outside, smell the fresh air.
And get over your illusionary concept of freedom

[Technoid]

So nobody is even a little concerned that next they'll be enforcing mandatory safe sex? 'Cuz you're far more likely to pick up syphillis or AIDS than you are to die falling off a bicycle while riding half a mile to school, after all.

And do you honestly believe that the law won't start requiring that we do these "sensible safety" things on our own property soon enough? When does it end?

ahhh. the Abc...z argument

and use of apples and oranges

So you reason that if a good law can lead to a bad one we shouldent alow the first one?

Great, just remove all laws and regulations


Here in sweden we have had belt laws in over 30 years that hasnt led to any "liberties" being removed (other than the liberty to be retarded and endanger your and other persons lives )
We can still drive both drunk and without licence, belt or brain on our private property

We also recently got a bicyckle helmet law for minors (everyone up to 15 years of age).
Wich is great, since it makes wearing a helmet the correct behauvior.
The trafik enviroment today is much more dangerous than when I was a kid, and bicycles goes MUCH faster these days.
And common sence is at an all time low, so hence the law