An oh S*** moment if there ever was one!

[Jammrock]

I am not sure. What do you think?

Technically forgiving 'sin' is ethical. Forgetting about it and repeating your stupidity, or letting it go unpunished, is not

@az: I know you weren't accusing. We Americans can be a silly lot with very strange humor.

[az]

Forgiving on your behalf is ethical. Promising forgiveness on behalf of everybody isn't, of course.

Jamm: I hope it's only humor I know it is for some, I hope it is for most.

[TnT]

(Wikipedia)

Nothing to do with NATO, but the US/UK aggression, based on fictitious WMDs. Who can say the the French position was wrong?

Ah okay, yeah it was the WMD stuff. It has nothing to do with if the French were wrong or right in their position -- more about American arrogance.

I think some of the bashing in America comes from the notion that the French are fancy snobs. This is completely perpetuated by wealthy Americans and not by the nation of France. For example, my friend, Freedom Richard, laughs when he sees wine lists at some restaurants because they overcharge for cheap French wine because its an import. From Joe Schmo's perspective all he ever sees is that everything from France is expensive -- why buy a glass of wine when you can buy a 6-pack of Bud?

[Brian Ellis]

Americans may see the archetypical Frenchman as a guy wearing a beret, a Gauloise hanging from his lips and a bread baguette under his arm, breathing out garlic fumes and being rude to Americans.

Frenchmen see the archetypical American as overweight, wearing loud clothes in poor taste, half-a-dozen cameras hanging round his neck, wearing a Stetson and with a big cigar and making a lot of noise because no one can understand him.

The truth is nearer a commonality, that neither can understand what the other is saying and therefore thinks the other is rude (which they often are). For example, table manners are very different, even in such things as to how cutlery is placed and used, what and how drinks are consumed, even where hands are held. Until you learn the niceties of the other, then you will look either affected or gauche. There is basically no difference between a Paris or a New York cab driver, other than the language; they can both be very rude!

And who is to blame for the prices of French plonk sold at fancy prices? The winegrower? Hardly, he probably gets $0.25/l. The bottler/exporter? $0.15/bottle gross, including the bottle, label and cork. The transport? Maybe $0.50/bottle. The importer? Possibly 100% markup on his in-house landed costs, duty paid, so we have probably reached $2/bottle. The restaurateur? Well, he sells it for $10/bottle to pay for his wine waiter. Are the French to blame? Let me tell you that a Californian (or French or Australian) Cabernet-Sauvignon of very mediocre quality probably sells here, in a supermarket, not a restaurant, for about $20/bottle, where a bottle of Scotch can be had for $6-10/bottle. Why? Because the ignorant think that there is a relation between price and quality. In fact, a reasonable Cypriot wine, at $5/bottle, would be better than the Californian wine at 4x the price. IOW, the vendors are selling snob value at an exorbitant price, in both countries.

[TnT]

And who is to blame for the prices of French plonk sold at fancy prices? The winegrower? Hardly, he probably gets $0.25/l. The bottler/exporter? $0.15/bottle gross, including the bottle, label and cork. The transport? Maybe $0.50/bottle. The importer? Possibly 100% markup on his in-house landed costs, duty paid, so we have probably reached $2/bottle. The restaurateur? Well, he sells it for $10/bottle to pay for his wine waiter. Are the French to blame? Let me tell you that a Californian (or French or Australian) Cabernet-Sauvignon of very mediocre quality probably sells here, in a supermarket, not a restaurant, for about $20/bottle, where a bottle of Scotch can be had for $6-10/bottle. Why? Because the ignorant think that there is a relation between price and quality. In fact, a reasonable Cypriot wine, at $5/bottle, would be better than the Californian wine at 4x the price. IOW, the vendors are selling snob value at an exorbitant price, in both countries.

Yeah that's what I was trying to get at. The high price isn't due to quality or import cost but mark up at the retail/restaurant level.

[Dr Mordrid]

My contrary opinion about the French comes not only from the indicent described above but personal experience in and around Paris and with their cousins in Montreal. Bad attitude doesn't begin to describe it. Never have I run into people who seemed to take so much pleasure in being rude and obnoxious. OTOH Normandy was a great place with wonderful people.

[ZokesPro]

People from big cities usually adopt bad attitudes, wether they are from cities like Paris, Montreal or New York. It's the fact that they live in the big city that makes them that way and not the language , province or country.

[Dr Mordrid]

Never had a problem with NYC once Guliani straightened things out.

It wasn't just the Parisians but those in the surrounding area. In most metropolitian areas the suburbanites are better, but not there. The prevailing attitude was that they were they were going to prove your inferiority to you at whatever cost. Just plain nasty.

[ZokesPro]

Ah, I understand what you mean.

[Brian Ellis]

People from big cities usually adopt bad attitudes, wether they are from cities like Paris, Montreal or New York. It's the fact that they live in the big city that makes them that way and not the language , province or country.

Agreed!

The worst experience of rudeness and xenophobia I ever encountered was in Chicago. The memory is too painful to recount. Never have I run into someone who seemed to take so much pleasure in being rude and obnoxious. But I don't slang a whole nation because of this; I know the great majority of Americans are friendly, the same as the great majority of Frenchmen.

I've spent a week each on two occasions in Montreal and I never encountered any unpleasantness from anyone: quite the opposite in fact; I found the locals (even the taxi drivers) to be very pleasant and friendly - even the security people at the airport. I even managed to understand their unique accent!!!!

Au contraire, the coldest and most distant citizens I've encountered were possibly in Frankfurt. Not exactly rude, but getting very close.

[Dr Mordrid]

Our last, and I do mean LAST, trip to Montreal resulted in $2000 in damage to our car because it had American plates; we watched from a distance and judged the reasoning by what they were saying and it wasn't just a bunch of kids.

That was the 2nd time in 3 years that one of our cars had been attacked in Montreal, and both incidents happened before 9/11 and our reaction to it so that's not an excuse.

Pfftttt.....they can GTH as far as I'm concerned.

[ZokesPro]

Our last, and I do mean LAST, trip to Montreal resulted in $2000 in damage to our car because it had American plates; we watched from a distance and judged the reasoning by what they were saying and it wasn't just a bunch of kids.

That was the 2nd time in 3 years that one of our cars had been attacked in Montreal, and both incidents happened before 9/11 and our reaction to it so that's not an excuse.

Pfftttt.....they can GTH as far as I'm concerned.

That doesn't surprise me and unfortunetely it gives the rest of us a bad name, like myself. I know that a lot of people here aren't too fond of Americans but to lash out at one particular person, or that person's belongings is immature and unfair. I've been to the U.S. more times than I can remember and aside from the customs workers (which are dicks) Americans in general are very kind people.

P.S: I'll send you my old license plate that way when you come down to Quebec you won't get harrassed. (if you ever come back that is)

[GT98]

My friend went to Quebec (I think, know it was some place in French Canada) and had his 2004 F-350 stolen from behind the hotel he was staying at! The group he was with had 2 additional Caddy Escalades stolen also!

[ZokesPro]

My friend went to Quebec (I think, know it was some place in French Canada) and had his 2004 F-350 stolen from behind the hotel he was staying at! The group he was with had 2 additional Caddy Escalades stolen also!

So what? There are just as many thieves in the U.S. as in Canada.

[GT98]

So what? There are just as many thieves in the U.S. as in Canada.

Whats the chances if it happening over the same long weekend? He was up there for a softball tournament, His truck was stolen either Friday or Saturday night and the 2 Caddies where stolen (2 spots from one another) from the Six Flags up there the same weekend...it was obliviously because they had US plates on them.

Not to mention he had Lojack on the Truck and guess what? It doesn't work more then 25 miles from the US border!