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  • Formula 1 freezes engine dev

    Wow.....

    Link....

    F1 shock: no more engine development allowed for 10 years


    December 10, 2007 Last Friday, at the World Motor Sport Council in Monaco, the FIA, which governs Formula One racing, made a decision to immediately freeze engine development for the next 10 years. Unbelievably, the engine each F1 team presents and homologates by the end of next March will be the engine that team races until 2017 – and the billions of Euros normally spent on engine development will be channeled into peripheral systems. The FIA sees development outside the engine, such as with Kinetic Energy Recovery, as a far more valuable contribution to road car development than spending money on squeezing another 1000rpm and 30 horsepower out of an engine that's already spinning three times as fast as the one in your family sedan.

    It might seem incongruous for a sport that's traditionally been regarded as the foremost crucible for engine development to suddenly slap a ban on it, but the FIA's decision to freeze engine development for the next 10 years has actually been taken with both Formula One's competitive sport and its responsibility to road car development in mind.

    Interviewed in the FIA's "Paddock" Magazine, FIA President Max Mosely made the fairly staggering statement that "the F1 racing engine is now fully developed. That is to say, there's nothing more you can do to an F1 engine that will enhance F1, make the competition better, or bring any benefit at all.

    "What you’re trying to do in F1 is have a racing engine that sounds terrific and produces a lot of power. That’s already at odds with road car engines. Once the F1 engines went past about 9000rpm, they were starting to lose the road car connection. Last year they were up to 19,000rpm and, if we hadn’t stopped it, by now they could have been at about 22,000rpm. Completely irrelevant to the road. Just an utterly pointless engineering exercise."

    Formula One teams until now have been spending upwards of a hundred million Euros each every year tweaking engine components for minor horsepower gains that are completely irrelevant outside the white lines of a racetrack. Mosely sees this kind of expenditure as extremely wasteful – in his view, Formula One's role at the pinnacle of world racing is to accelerate technical developments that can quickly be adapted for the benefit of consumer cars - like Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems, which store energy from braking and engine heat and return it to the wheels under acceleration.

    The cost-saving nature of the move has widespread backing from the boards of the companies running Formula One teams, if not from the teams themselves.

    "Two or three years ago, BMW’s F1 engine budget was greater than the entire dividend they paid to their shareholders," said Mosely, "Sooner or later, the main board was going to stop that. What has always happened is that the head of racing goes to the CEO, and tells him he needs more money to compete with the Japanese. And his Japanese counterpart is doing exactly the same. And the choice for the poor CEOs is to pay up or shut down the F1 programs. So far, fortunately for us, they’ve continued to pay up.

    "If the regulator can tell them that the rules are going to be changed in such a way that no one watching will notice the slightest difference, but the costs will drop dramatically, and what money is spent will go on technology that’s directly relevant to their main businesses, then the CEOs tend to listen. And unless they think you’re a complete idiot, they’re going to go with you."
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    How absolutely ridiculous.

    Either you do the best and you call it F1 or you don't - with the engine, aero, tires etc etc - all of them, or you stop the farce that now is to become F1.

    When will somebody suddenly decide that the amount of money spent on eg aero now is too much and is not really producing anything "worthwhile" so that then gets frozen too ................... or the tires or whatever.
    Lawrence

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    • #3
      I'm quite happy with the decsion.
      Quite a lot of technology from the racetrack has found its way into the standard road car, and as stated, that is becoming less and less possible...

      All they're trying to do, is have the F1 teams spend their money on something that will be useful to a larger crowd.

      atm, the engines are great for Ferrari Enzo's...great, how many people have those ?

      I'm all for it, this way, new tech ideas, like the 6-wheelers and the fan-assisted ground aerodynamics, will finally be coming back to motorsport...innovation instead of flogging the rpm/power dead horse....

      edit: in the past couple of years Aerodynamics has been very important to get the gains, since they were limited elsewhere...how many different wings and fins are there on the cars now compared to 5 or more years ago..
      PC-1 Fractal Design Arc Mini R2, 3800X, Asus B450M-PRO mATX, 2x8GB B-die@3800C16, AMD Vega64, Seasonic 850W Gold, Black Ice Nemesis/Laing DDC/EKWB 240 Loop (VRM>CPU>GPU), Noctua Fans.
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      • #4
        I've often wondered whether it would be fun to have an Fn race where the only imposed restriction is to have, say, 5 litres of fuel for every 100 km of track. THAT would be a challenge for both constructors and drivers and, at the same time, be applicable to reducing fuel consumption on road cars.
        Brian (the devil incarnate)

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        • #5
          Who cares about reducing fuel consumption for road cars?
          Honestly want to reduce fuel consumption? Use public transportation.
          "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."

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          • #6
            Fair point. I rate time consumption higher than fuel consumption but within that restraint, fuel consumption is an issue for me.
            Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
            [...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen

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            • #7
              With all due respect, 1lt / 20km is NOT a >160km/h race.
              It's a sorry display of solar and whatever tricks that defy aerodynamics or whatever.
              What's next, donkey and a rickshaw race?
              "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TransformX View Post
                Honestly want to reduce fuel consumption? Use public transportation.
                Is not always a viable alternative.

                I would like to see F1 move to a more environmentally sport. Limiting the amount of fuel or the number of fuel stops would be interesting. But stopping engine development seems to slow down such things...
                odd....


                Jörg
                pixar
                Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TransformX View Post
                  With all due respect, 1lt / 20km is NOT a >160km/h race.
                  It's a sorry display of solar and whatever tricks that defy aerodynamics or whatever.
                  What's next, donkey and a rickshaw race?
                  Now you're being ridiculous. My car, when I get it back, allows me to go into Larnaca (c. 22 km) on 1 l of fuel and that's a mid-sized 4-door saloon weighing a helluva lot (about 1250 kg empty). This trip is partly on ordinary rural roads at 80 km/h max, through villages at 50 km/h, a short stretch of motorway at 100 km/h and a long stretch of dual carriageway at 65 km/h. If I can get well under 5 l/100 km with ordinary driving, then I'm damned sure that a purpose built formula car, weighing half of mine and with a wind resistance a quarter of mine will be able to do better than that at top speeds over 200 km/h.
                  Brian (the devil incarnate)

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                  • #10
                    Sure, if you go ahead and ignore all the physical factors that keep that car from flying out of the circuit in every turn. Your car needs a 1.6L engine and no more than 90hp to do the trip. Put that engine on an F1 car and a rickshaw race will be far more interesting to watch.
                    It's called RACING for a reason and that reason isn't fuel conservation.

                    Edit: And with all due respect, F1 drivers don't drive like you do
                    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VJ View Post
                      Is not always a viable alternative.

                      I would like to see F1 move to a more environmentally sport. Limiting the amount of fuel or the number of fuel stops would be interesting. But stopping engine development seems to slow down such things...
                      odd....


                      Jörg
                      Want an environmental sport? Fly kites. Switch from your gas guzzling airplane to gliders. Just do us a big favor and leave the F1, drag racing etc to those who still enjoy speed and burning rubber. What's next, turn the WRC into an eco-friendly family tour? C'mon..!
                      "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."

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                      • #12
                        I presume you are talking about the Prius when you are quoting those consumption figures Brian? ................... if so you are conveniently forgetting the energy fed to the wheels by the electrics - that energy is neither free nor feasible for high speed racing over any distance of note - just as it currently is not in the Prius.
                        Lawrence

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TransformX View Post
                          Sure, if you go ahead and ignore all the physical factors that keep that car from flying out of the circuit in every turn. Your car needs a 1.6L engine and no more than 90hp to do the trip. Put that engine on an F1 car and a rickshaw race will be far more interesting to watch.
                          It's called RACING for a reason and that reason isn't fuel conservation.

                          Edit: And with all due respect, F1 drivers don't drive like you do
                          Who the heck is talking about F1? I did say Fn, not F1, if you care to go back and read what I wrote. Even Go-Kart races can be exciting but I'm damn sure that something can be done along the lines I cited with proper cars. My car has a 1.35 l petrol engine giving ~85 kW plus a 30 kW electric motor. And, of course, my idea would not need anything as big as a F1 chassis and it would not need an F1 driver, because it would require much more skill than foot hard down and through the gears to get the best compromise between acceleration, speed, consumption and being able to finish the race while you still have a sniff of petrol vapour in the tank. It would be a much harder challenge than F1 for both the constructor and the driver, believe me.
                          Brian (the devil incarnate)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TransformX View Post
                            Want an environmental sport? Fly kites.
                            ROFLMAO!
                            Now I'm not into racing at all, find it boring (If they could guarantee me a crash or two every 15 minutes I might reconsider). I guess it'd be a boon to the environment if they no longer had life audiences at the events. Guess they could also do a 3-round dual car knock-out system to save fuel (and that might even make it more interesting!).
                            Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
                            [...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen

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                            • #15
                              Just an utterly pointless engineering exercise
                              I admit I know little about F1 racing, but I've always felt that utterly pointless engineering exercises were the best kind.

                              Kevin

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