Formula 1 freezes engine dev

[Nowhere]

I presume you are talking about the Prius when you are quoting those consumption figures Brian? ................... if so you are conveniently forgetting the energy fed to the wheels by the electrics - that energy is neither free nor feasible for high speed racing over any distance of note - just as it currently is not in the Prius.

Not only he's not talking about Prius (that's not the only hybrid out there), but also...

WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS "ENERGY FED TO THE WHEELS BY THE ELECTRICS" COMES FROM?!

That's right, from burning fuel.


As for the main topic...I believe they shouldn'r freeze development, but install some caps that would proper development in more desirable direction. Lower max RPM and compression ratio for example to levels more comparable with normal cars, set standard fuel consumption & pollution and reward/take points for overperforming/underperforming.
Of course do it all gradually to avoid underperforming (speed/etc. wise) bolids right after drastic changes...

[Evildead666]

I love motorsport, but I also believe that the teams need to be concentrating on something else than the engine. We have 19Krpm engines, which use up a LOT of fuel.
OK, they have a lot of power/literage, they are made for this, but as the article states, why spend another 100 Million or more on just getting that little edge in the engine dept.?

We have gone as far as combustion engines should go, now its time to concentrate on other parts of the car.
I'd like to see electromagnetic frictionless brakes for one, and using the brakes as a recharging source, letting the charged power out when exiting the corner. such a boost would help the engines power output...

Drag racing could be converted to Hydrogen.
It would increase the availability of the tech, and the know how to use it...and in the case of accidents, a real show !! (assuming no-one is harmed...)

Petrol Heads aspire to posess a vehicle of Race standards, and power. If we demonstrate this is with clean fuels, then that is what they'll want.

Ethanol based fuel is greener to burn than standard fuel, and gives a power increase.
unfortunately, it may be not so green during the production phase...

[Evildead666]

Nowhere, they have been putting caps on the engine and tyres and stuff for years.
they capped the engine capacity already, all this mainly to slow the cars down, otherwise we'd be having more bad accidents...at higher speeds...

[LvR]

Not only he's not talking about Prius (that's not the only hybrid out there), but also...

Well then I have just suffered a brainfart I guess - I seem to remember Brian talking about a Prius but then I may remember wrong and am not going to search on that score - a hybrid is a hybrid is a hybrid wrt my comment anyway

[Brian Ellis]

I presume you are talking about the Prius when you are quoting those consumption figures Brian? ................... if so you are conveniently forgetting the energy fed to the wheels by the electrics - that energy is neither free nor feasible for high speed racing over any distance of note - just as it currently is not in the Prius.

My car is not a Prius but a Honda Civic Hybrid. The point I'm trying to make is that there is still a lot of progress that can be made with energy recovery. I estimate that the maximum overall energy recovery of my car is roughly 50%, based on my consumption on downhill, uphill and level consumptions. This could be improved but it would require more sophisticated technology than simply generator braking/battery/motor. I agree that the Prius system would not be feasible for racing (too complex and heavy and the electrics are only suitable for slow speed use). The Civic system is the opposite and I get the best economy on highway use, whereas urban consumption is poor, unlike the Prius. Racing requires hefty braking before entering into corners, then acceleration through the corner: if that could be done with energy recovery of ~80%, combined with the high torque of the electrics for acceleration, I think it could make an interesting concept. The winner would be the car with the best energy recovery, driven by the driver who could make the most of it. Quite a challenge.

[Brian Ellis]

a hybrid is a hybrid is a hybrid wrt my comment anyway

Wrong, wrong, wrong! There are several types of hybrid, each with its own advantages and disadvantages.

[Nowhere]

Evildead666, of course there are caps already, but in the case of the engine...I would rather like they would capp RPM instead of engine cubic capacity for example. Not only it would be more usefull for normal cars/enigine research...I just hate the sound (as it is now)
Since when the most technically impressive vehicles in existence are supposed to sound like juice extractor?

[LvR]

Sorry for calling your Honda a Toyota then - my bad Brian.

I watched a show (2006?) on Discovery yesterday called "Future Cars" and it was indeed amazing to see the real current progress being made not only ito speed but also distance achievable with "green" fuels and hybrid combinations.

wrong, wrong wrong it may be in the strictest sense of the word, but wrt my comment on the electric energy used not being free it was valid.

[Nowhere]

BTW LvR, you might be interested in this...

search google for Toyota hybrid that won recently 24h endurance race.

edit: example link http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...-hybrid-r.html

[LvR]

Yeah that was indeed quite amazing.

[Strahd]

I've never been an F1 fan, or any kind of racing really.
But if this leads to development of alternative systems that can be in domestic cars I'm all for it.

[Elie]

I'm on the fence with this decision because it has it's advantages as well as disadvantages as follows...

1-Technology developement: We all know that with continued research and development to make engines more effecient, faster and last longer, will benefit the avergae Joe buying a family sedan as some of that technology eventually filters down to cars we drive today.

Now, puting a freeze on future developement in this regard will have an impact (don't know the severity) on the future of automobiles technology.
having said that, ont he positive side, those F1 engines are currently years ahead in advancements that I dont see that much of an impact on the avergae car market (yet).

2-there are other major areas in the race car they can develope, like breaks, fuel consuption and the type of fuel used, suspension/handling, areo dynamics and safety, that they could start engineering to make the cars faster, which again will filter down to the cars we drive, it's not all about the engine.

3-Were I see a problem is with the various teams that have better engines than others, for example... If they freeze further development on engines, those teams with the fastest, more reliable engines are laughing like Ferrari and BMW while the other teams will continue to struggle to make ends meet. Those who are at the top will stay at the top, and those at the bottom will stay there.
That is not fair.


If however looking at the big picture, the decision will eventually benefit us in the future of car design in terms of effeciency, safety and performance.

Cheers,

[Technoid]

It's pretty clear from a quick google that FIA is in the habbit of banning everything that makes the cars go faster

[Dr Mordrid]

About the only place where you really have unlimited racing anymore is Top Fuel drag racing

[VJ]

Want an environmental sport? Fly kites. Switch from your gas guzzling airplane to gliders. Just do us a big favor and leave the F1, drag racing etc to those who still enjoy speed and burning rubber. What's next, turn the WRC into an eco-friendly family tour? C'mon..!

Your missing my point. F1 has many limitations imposed to bring down speed. Rather than making them sort of pointless (limiting engine revs, upping ride height, shrinking spoilers, ...) why not create limitations that teams could brake by using new techniques (e.g. lower the speed of the fuelflow when refuelling : a fuel stop will become more costly, so it would pay to minimize the time of a stop, which can be achieved by less fuel consumption, energy recuperation, ...). It would bring F1 back to the forefront of car development, which it had been in the past but lost that position somewhat.

Who says it has to be slow? Koenigsegg bio-fuel powered car is the fastest:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6918/

Jörg