Iceland vulcane messing up air traffic

[VJ]

I'm surprised there has not been a thread started on this topic...

Since Thursday, there are a lot of problems in European air traffic due to the ash cloud from the Eyjafjallajoekull vulcano (yes, I used copy/paste for the name ).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8626505.stm

There currently are predictions that it could be a problem for weeks or even months! I hope it does not though: my parents are coming over in May, and I have a couple of flights in June...
But it is proof that it is a small world: one vulcano in Iceland causes chaos throughout Europe...


Jörg

[dZeus]

It's the middle finger for the UK and NL screwing the Islandic population

[Brian Ellis]

this is not going to help the economy in Iceland, already in a parlous state. I'm sure they would have done without this if they could. It is ironic that their own major airport remains open, as it is to the windward of the volcano.

[Fat Tone]

It's the middle finger for the UK and NL screwing the Islandic population

Huh? They lost all OUR money and refuse to reimburse!!!!!

[Umfriend]

Yeah, them Icelandic bankers and regulators did, not their population (even though most of them benefitted one way or the other of course).

I'm on the fence on how we should deal with this. I beleive the best option would be if we (teh Netherlands) withdrew the claim and Iceland ceded a sizeable part of the island to the Netherlands. A similar construciton should be used, IMO & BTW, for Greece.

[dZeus]

Huh? They lost all OUR money and refuse to reimburse!!!!!

yeah their bankers did, and their regulators failed (and so did the UK and NL regulators... many people saw this coming ages ago). Meanwhile, some of the people that caused this mess are living in London enjoying their extracted wealth...

Why exactly was Iceland put on anti-terror lists again? Why wouldn't Iceland have the right to convert all foreign debts into local currency and devalue? I can't see how the Icelandic population can be held responsible for a ****up of both local and foreign regulators...

oh and nobody ever should lay a claim on a sovereign nation imo, as it undermines the whole idea of sovereignty

[VJ]

@Brian:
I assume you could answer this: how does this impact the calculations of C02 emissions of the various countries? I mean, each country made promises about reducing the emission, but that is off course without taking into account natural emissions. How can be verified now if the countries have met their set goals?
(or can C02 emission of a volcano be estimated quite accurately?)

[Brian Ellis]

In order to answer your question, we have to divide the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere into the natural levels, at about 280 ppm, and the man-made CO2 which brings it up to nearly 400 ppm. The latter is fairly easily calculated from the amount of fossil fuels that are consumed, combined with the areas of deforestation and, possibly, an increase in the number of ruminants used for producing meat. The latter is much less than is commonly thought, because wild ruminants outnumber domestic ones by an important factor.

Volcanoes produce practically no carbon dioxide; where would it find the carbon? Most of the gases from an eruption are water vapour, nitrogen and sulphur dioxide. In the case of this one in Iceland, the great plumes are water vapour from the glaciers. There is one exception to my general statement and that is a volcano in Hawaii which does produce significant quantities of carbon dioxide, but this is exceptional.

I do not anticipate any climate change of any importance due to this eruption, at least as it has progressed up to now. All the dust and gases are in the troposphere. If the eruption were to stop today, the dust would settle within a week or two. The sulfur dioxide would rain out within a matter of days, aided by the extra water produced by the volcano. If the eruption became more violent and ended in the stratosphere, sulfate aerosols would produce a slight cooling effect, as they would reflect sunlight back into space. The very worst eruptions, such as Krakatoa, Pinatubo etc, produce a very small cooling effect lasting 2 to 4 years, but even this is negligible when you consider that climate is averaged over 30 years, as a general rule. At the worst, it produces a slight dip in the global temperature curves for the short period.

In any case, to get back to your question, natural emissions average out over time to produce the famous 280 ppm level, and cannot be counted in the carbon balance sheet for any particular country. This is comprised of only the anthropogenic emissions.

[Umfriend]

Why wouldn't Iceland have the right to convert all foreign debts into local currency and devalue?

That'd be a breach of contract.

oh and nobody ever should lay a claim on a sovereign nation imo, as it undermines the whole idea of sovereignty

I disagree, the claim on the sovereign nation is there as the sovereign issued a guarantee!

[dZeus]

That'd be a breach of contract.
I disagree, the claim on the sovereign nation is there as the sovereign issued a guarantee!

Just curious, do you believe Debtor's Prison should be reinstated too?

[Umfriend]

Just curious, do you believe Debtor's Prison should be reinstated too?

I think not (was there ever such a thing?). How is this relevant to my two statements you posted this to?

[VJ]

In any case, to get back to your question, natural emissions average out over time to produce the famous 280 ppm level, and cannot be counted in the carbon balance sheet for any particular country. This is comprised of only the anthropogenic emissions.

Thanks for the answer!

I found this data via gizmodo though: http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...es-or-volcano/
They estimate the daily CO2 output of the vulcano at 15000 tons, based on extrapolation from Mount Pinatubo. The closed airspace however saves more CO2 than the vulcano releases...

[dZeus]

I think not (was there ever such a thing?). How is this relevant to my two statements you posted this to?

It's a matter of what the rights are of the entity owing debt. Your harsh stance towards sovereign debt made me wonder what you think about personal debt. Look up "Debtor's Prison" to see what it is, if you aren't familiar with it.

Personally, I think a sovereign issued guarantee means not much more (and shouldn't) as a guarantee that they care about rates they can borrow money at. If they default (e.g. Argentina), rates go up by a huge amount.

Sovereignity of the people/state should be guaranteed if that means not liquidating assets on a default. It'd be far too easy to get in a situation of neo-feudalism/serfdom if governments/regulators fail on the people if this wasn't the case (see Iceland). That's why I'm very much against the politics of the UK/NL towards Iceland in this matter.

imo, it'd be better to write off the debt caused by the Landsbanki affair, or try to negotiate for terms that are bearable for the Icelandic people (lots are emigrating because of this atm), and deny access to the international banking system for a long time as they have proven themselves as being uncapable of regulating their sector (though the same could be said about the UK and NL counterparts).

[Kruzin]

Iceland should not be blamed/charged for a volcano eruption.
They did not ask for it, they did not cause it.

Your pissy bickering is pointless.
This is a global issue.

Did the world blame Haiti or Belize for having earthquakes?
No.
The world helped.
How is this different?

Stop pissing about how Iceland's people should pay for this eruption.
They shouldn't.
The world as a whole needs to deal with it. There is no finger pointing to be done here. Period.

[TransformX]

Iceland should not be blamed/charged for a volcano eruption.
They did not ask for it, they did not cause it.

Your pissy bickering is pointless.
This is a global issue.

Did the world blame Haiti or Belize for having earthquakes?
No.
The world helped.
How is this different?

Stop pissing about how Iceland's people should pay for this eruption.
They shouldn't.
The world as a whole needs to deal with it. There is no finger pointing to be done here. Period.

It wasn't about he volcano, it's about the latest economical (sub prime) crisis..
You might want to read about Iceland's part in it here.