Iranian terror plot intercepted

[cjolley]

...Just that they may be far to easily (and conveniently) convinced this was indeed instigated by Iran and that retaliation is not only justified but neccessary.

Well, that remains to be seen. Nothing has happened yet.

[Dr Mordrid]

BREAKING:

Obama is in a meeting with the DoD Secretary and all 100 Senators have been called into an "urgent" closed-door intel briefing. The House leadership, foreign affairs & military affairs committees are also meeting with intel.

[dZeus]

Name one major government that has never made up evidence, or lied, or twisted the truth, or used propaganda... thought so. Not that it makes it right, but don't point fingers at someone when you're own government has most likely done it several times, too.

Now, whether they do it the extent, or on the scale, that the US government has allegedly done it ... that's a different story.

Where did this become a 'us against them' exercise? I use the same level of scrutiny of any government's actions, including my own. In fact, my own government is the one I scrutinize the most of all, as it affects me the most directly.

If you start calling people anti-American because they're critical of the US administration (which most of you yourself seem to have no problem with being), then you're falling for simple meme management.

I also called out against intervention in Libiya, which was mostly a French/British undertaking. Same for the DSK thing (would be surprised if that wasn't a French affair too).

And I always thought that a build in asbestos suit came with being an American

[dZeus]

Job growth. Someone has to make the bombs.

[Joking, of course, and in poor taste, I'm sure. My daughter has a cold and was up several times last night so I'm a bit grumpy today.]

Just try to convince Krugman it's a joke.

Seriously, I hope she'll get over her cold soon. We don't want a grumpy Jammrock in here, or he'll scare away new murcers in case Matrox invents a product that sells well

[dZeus]

It is just beyond credulity that the US would make this up.
There would be a HUGE likelihood that it would be found out. Think of wikileaks.
Think of the damage it would do.

For what gain? There is just no comparative up-side for us.
It would do us less harm to just say "We don't trust Iran and we are just going to bomb the crap out of their nuke program until it's gone. Tough beans if you don't like it."
Most of the world would be glad to see it go. But not happy to see us make up a transparent falsehood.

And what if they find out? What has changed about the Iraqi invasion since knowing it was all a scam? A pretext that is acceptable to get your way is all that is necessary. Being proven wrong in the long run doesn't make much difference (other than your country's image in the world, but the USA can permit itself quite a bit in that respect)

[cjolley]

And what if they find out? What has changed about the Iraqi invasion since knowing it was all a scam?

You mean besides losing about 2/3 of the good will and cooperation we received after 9-11 and having questions like this asked all the time, every where in the world, for generations to come?

[dZeus]

I find it a little amazing (just a little) that the first place people go when they hear news like this is "US Government conspiracy!" Nobody withholds judgement until the evidence is presented. But that doesn't matter since even once the evidence is presented the first place people go is "Fabricated!"

After all, there's no conceivable way the peaceful, freedom-loving leaders of Iran would ever undertake such black-hearted action.

The idea that the US has brought this global incredulity upon itself by its international actions over the last 50 - 60 years is disheartening, to say the least.

Now it doesn't matter how airtight-ironclad any evidence we have might be. No one in the international community will believe or accept it. So the release of evidence is mainly to satisfy the American sense of justice, not to convince anyone else of its veracity, since that's clearly not possible.

So if the veracity of the evidence doesn't matter, why should we care if anyone in the world believes it? Why should we seek redress in the international court of opinion when international opinion is set immutably against us, no matter what we say or do?

I find the idea disheartening too. Please vote for real change next time

Anyway, I've never said that I believe that Iran isn't capable of these things, as their Hisb'allah and Hamas proxies do plenty of nasty stuff. My point was that the accused modus of operation sounds very implausible considering the type of diplomacy Iran is engaged in, in the Middle East. And I'm not the only one. Here's what an ex-CIA operative says:

"This stinks to holy hell. The Quds Force are very good. They don't sit down with people they don't know and make a plot. They use proxies and they are professional about it. If Kassim Suleimani was coming after you or me, we would be dead. This is totally uncharacteristic of them."

[dZeus]

You mean besides losing about 2/3 of the good will and cooperation we received after 9-11 and having questions like this asked all the time, every where in the world, for generations to come?

So what are you saying? Did that prevent GWB and his band of neocons from starting the Iraqi war?

There are many competing interests at governmental level. Sometimes if one of them can get their way while damaging others, they still do it. Governments aren't streamlined organisms, but often rather schizophrenic in nature.

[Dr Mordrid]

Just to cover ALL bases,

US Attorney General Eric General Holder was supoenoed by Congress today over the Fast & Furious gunrunning deal, along with a ton of his communications records, internally and with the White House. Absent the Iran situation that was going to be the lead story.

Fast & Furious was a misbegotten gunrunning sting op where Justice, ATF, and people up to the White House allowed automatic weapons to be sold to Mexican drug cartels, some with US funds. Normally these would be stopped before delivery, but the Administration let them go with no trackers in the fully functional weapons. They've started turning up at murders, including that of an ATF agent, and 40 were found in the posession of a major cartel enforcer. Upwards of 2,000 weapons were allowed to "walk the border," and most are still in the wild.

Governors, cops & representatives of the border states, the legal gun dealers who were recruited by ATF to do the sales, the Mexican Govt. and ATF line agents are rightfully pissed off and Congress is investigating.

One would hope this isn't a Wag The Dog situation.

[KRSESQ]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the two somehow connected. As in the fast and furious deals had to go through in order to protect confidential sources involved in this.

[VJ]

*sigh* Not really true. What you see on TV, and what the more conservative American population talk about, is not the general US consensus.

True, but they are quite loud and most picked up by the media. Add to that statements such as "God Created the United States to Lead the World" (Mitt Romney), and this just puts oil on the fire.

[Dr Mordrid]

The Senate intel, military affairs and related committees met last night with Justice, DoD, Counter-Terror, the State Dept. etc. The interviews so far indicate they too had trouble believing it was an Iranian govt. op until $800,000 in funding was transferred from Iranian accounts linked to the Quds Force, a unit of the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution (Revolutionary Guard). That's when the alarms went off.

Ham-handed it was, which could mean -

1) the top leadership is even more whacked than we knew or thought

2) the top leadership is losing control of lower, even more radical elements - fractionalizing the entire system

3) there was a quasi-intentional misread in furtherance of a Wag The Dog distraction for US political purposes

I don't know which is worse

[cjolley]

Or it was a set up by the Saudis.
After all, Michael Westen could have set this up in a day or two.

[Jammrock]

Or it was a set up by the Saudis.
After all, Michael Westen could have set this up in a day or two.

A day or two. Puh. Only if he had both hands tied behind his back and had been shot three times.

[cjolley]

A day or two. Puh. Only if he had both hands tied behind his back and had been shot three times.

True, but I assumed he would have some hapless moron client to save at the same time.