NASA suspends non-ISS contacts with Russia

[Jammrock]

PS-Off-Topic: When the hell is the Mad Max reboot coming out ?

Here, I'll answer the most important question in the thread. Next spring. Tentative release date of May 15, 2015. Reshoots wrapped in Nov 2013.

[Brian Ellis]

Brian, why would Ukraine bemoan a territorial loss of a piece of land that only became theirs 60 years ago and not through efforts of their own?
I'm not sure what "Russian-speaking Ukrainians" even means or how it is relevant. *If* a majority of the people living in the Crimea wants to be part of Russia, wouldn't that be grounds enough to have it transferred?

If the inhabitants of the Frisian islands unilaterally decided to leave the Netherlands to join England because the language they speak has a closer affinity to English than to Dutch, would you consider it reasonable?

The problem in this case is that the native inhabitants of Crimea are Ukrainian (and those of all the Eastern third of the country) but the language they speak is a Russian dialect and the language they write is Russian. This does not make them Russian and it does not allow Russia to invade part of Ukraine militarily (even if bloodless). Under international law, there is a procedure for secession of a region (cf. South Sudan and, even more topically, Scotland) and this takes years. What happened here does not conform to the law because a foreign country, Russia, intervened. Even the ex-President of Ukraine, himself a Russian-speaking Ukrainian, has said that Russia had no right to invade Crimea, even though he has been very chummy with Putin and has sought asylum in Russia.

[Brian Ellis]

Turkey has reportedly declared its intention to close the Turkish Straits to Russian shipping if Russia crosses the line in the eyes of the international community (personally I'd love to see that!). The LAST thing Putin wants is a conflict with Turkey and loss of access to the Aegean!

Turkey has no right to restrict Russian traffic through either the Bosphorus or the Dardanelles. Under the Montreux Treaty, they are both considered as international waters for all vessels belonging to countries bordering the Black Sea, of which Russia is one.

[Umfriend]

Ah, I see, my question was a furthering of my previous "What if >60% of the Crimean population favours being part of Russia instead of the Ukraine. What would be wrong with that?". So I guess we agree that if anywhere reasonable procedures are taken with care than there would be no issue?

As to your question, yes, in principle I would find that reasonable. There are caveats, for instance, I could feel better at home with the Swedes but obviously it would be administratively impractical for my 1000m2 of land to be handed over to Sweden etc. The Frisian Islands are, I think, to small to function as an administrative entity so, independence, no, tranfer to England, if they really want to. The whole of Dutch Frisia could be independent though.

It is just that I have heard a lot about how what Putin did was wrong but not becuase of the people in the Crimea but becuase of Ukraine. If they feel Russian or want to be part of Russia for whatever reason, then please go ahead.

I'm not even sure most of the native inhabitants of Crimea are Ukranian? I though it were mostly Russians that came in after the Krim-tartars where expelled?

[Evildead666]

I don't think the cold war ever really ended. We've just been enjoying a prolonged period of détente.

Turkey has reportedly declared its intention to close the Turkish Straits to Russian shipping if Russia crosses the line in the eyes of the international community (personally I'd love to see that!). The LAST thing Putin wants is a conflict with Turkey and loss of access to the Aegean!

One thing that comes across in the western media is that Putin is a very vain person. Obamas recent remarks about Putin and the Ukraine crisis were deliberately meant to attack that vanity. Also, Putin may be getting heat from some of his very wealthy comrades, who are annoyed to learn that their Visa cards no longer work. That may help to explain why Russian forces are currently at a relative standstill (knock on wood).

Do you really think the Western media are allowed to portray Putin as anything else ?
Propaganda is on both sides remember. TV is not news.

[Brian Ellis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Who will protect the non-Russian speakers under the rule of the Russian bear?

[KRSESQ]

Turkey has no right to restrict Russian traffic through either the Bosphorus or the Dardanelles. Under the Montreux Treaty, they are both considered as international waters for all vessels belonging to countries bordering the Black Sea, of which Russia is one.

Treaties are often the first casualties of war.

[Dr Mordrid]

Do you really think the Western media are allowed to portray Putin as anything else ?
>

Of course they are, at least here. I've read numerous stories that both presented the case that Russia has been treated unevenly by the west while also making the case that Putins responses to protect ethnic Russians over the last few years are disproportionate and increasingly like Hitler's actions in "protecting" ethnic Germans by invasion. Hence, 'Herr' Putin. I find it an increasingly fair comparison based on his behavior. Let's also not forget that the UN General Assembly has voted by a large majority against Russia's actions.

[Evildead666]

DR, Never heard you referring to Obama or Bush as 'Herr' anything, and they have done much, much worse, 'protecting' the interests of the USA...

The UN/USA/UK were very quick to demand sanctions be imposed.
When is the UN going to impose sanctions upon our leaders, for what they have done ?
(We can all laugh ourselves to death on that one...)

[Dr Mordrid]

The US etc. have not annexed any nations or part of nations.

We invaded A'stan in retaliation for an act of war based on their turf by bad actors the Taliban refused to stop or hand over. Iraq under Saddam had violated more UN sanctions than most can count in the ~9 years after the Gulf War, not to mention war crimes against its own people.

They both had it coming. Even then we have not annexed either, have we? We have withdrawn from Iraq and are drawing down in A'stan. No statehood or territorial status for either.

As for the US/UK/UN, you're forgetting that France is in on the sanctions game too, and most eastern and central NATO members would go further than the US has so far. Several of them have called for NATO troops.

Russia was, and continues to be, an aggressor. No platitudes, excuses or diversions can change that and the world knows it. That's why 2/3 of the UN called them on it.

[paulw]

The European members posting here have very short memories about the fact that their countries were invaded twice in the past 100 years by a European dictator . Here they are now cheering on another European dictator to invade the Ukraine, they may be next..

[Umfriend]

Hah! We were only invaded ONCE! :d

[paulw]

Hah! We were only invaded ONCE! :d

That's once to many!!

[Brian Ellis]

The US etc. have not annexed any nations or part of nations.

No? What about all the Caribbean and Pacific Nations annexed at the end of the Spanish-American war in 1898, some of which are still colonised?

After negotiations, in June 1897, Secretary of State John Sherman agreed to a treaty of annexation with these representatives of the Republic of Hawaii

As for Iraq, the pretended reasons for the annexation are not material, it became a de facto annex for several years, as has been Afghanistan, both complete catastrophes. If Russia is an aggressor in the Crimea, so was the US the leader in aggressing both these countries. The facts that these annexations are temporary and to a small extent multinational are also not material.

[Dr Mordrid]

If you're talking about the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico, they can change status in numerous ways; full independence, remain a territory, become an independent affiliate or become a state.

Virgin Islands is having the internal debate but in 2012 Puerto Rico voted for statehood. Congress needs to act, but odds are it'll be #51. And of course you know the Philippines went independent some time ago.

As far as Iraq goes, that was a relatively short postwar occupation as those things go.