airlines woes

[VJ]

So... 2 years ago I got married, but had to postpone the party because of covid...
One year ago, the vaccination program in Belgium would be blocking, so we postponed it again...
This year, everything is set, for Saturday. But somehow Swiss managed to destroy it.

My parents and 4 guests were flying to Warsaw via Zürich. The first flight had an hour delay, so they missed the connection. Claiming there were no alternatives the same day or the next, Swiss suggested to take a nighttrain to Berlin and a regular train further. These trains were fully booked, so the group returned to the Swiss desk, only to hear that the group accepted the nighttrain offer, so Swiss has no further obligation to help or support them.

My parents panicked, and managed to book a morning train back to Brussels, after having to spend the night at the airport. There will be complaints for sure, but it does not help us at this time.

We looked till 01.00 this morning for options and tried to convince my parents to travel to Berlin with a day train, and we would pick them up by car. But they are exhausted (78 years), fed up and want to be sure of getting anywhere. So they are on their way to Brussels. With no available seats on flights to Warsaw, it means they will be missing the wedding party that for a big part was organised for them as they could not attend the ceremony...

[Umfriend]

OK, that really really sucks. What Swiss did is terrible. It is bad enough anyway but with the elderly??

[UtwigMU]

Really sucks to hear that. I'm supposed to fly to Zürich to work on the company rack in datacenter once I finish my current project or replacing all Centos 7 machines with Oracle 8.

[VJ]

The big take-away is that if an airline offers something, be 100% certain it is a solution before accepting it.

Swiss gave my parents a voucher for the train (which really looks like a solution) but they did not verify if there are places on the train. My parents accepted the voucher and went to the station only to find out there were no places on any train that would take them to Warsaw on time. Rather than admitting that it is not a solution, Swiss doubled down and said they gave compensation. My parents also checked the hotel at the airport, but it was fully booked.

Amazing, the passenger rights ( https://www.lufthansa.com/be/en/passenger-rights ) do not provide any information on what to do if the airline fails to bring you to the destination and fails to provide any workable solution to get you anywhere. I spent the last two days writing the complaint, collecting all the documents and cursing at the complaint website as they limit what you can upload (max. 6 files, each max. 1MB, total max. 5MB).

Another lesson: just submit your complaint without attachments. You will get a confirmation email where they ask you to upload files if you have not done so. But at least the procedure will have been started (you have only 7 days to file a complaint) and the confirmation email will - probably - serve as proof that you filed within those 7 days.


And I just learned: my cousin could not come to our party as she was attending another wedding in Belgium that also had been postponed for two years (close family of her husband). There, the parents of the bride did not manage to fly in from Norway on Friday due to an unannounced strike of the pilots.

The hotel by comparison behaved more than exemplary. On Thursday we went to say that the guests would not arrive but that we would want to keep the reservation, late on Friday we went to cancel the rooms. As per conditions, in case of a late cancellation, they can charge the next night. In our case, they did not do that and only charged the one night that had passed. On top of that, they charged it at a cheaper rate. There was also no issue in getting an invoice for this (I needed this invoice fast). And this is the second time the hotel is so kind. The last time we used the hotel, my parents were not sure if they would be able to leave Warsaw due to the volcanic eruption in Iceland. They asked if they could return to the hotel if their flight would not go. The hotel replied that they are fully booked, but for sure my parents can come and they will look for a solution with other hotels.


Strange times in air travel at the moment...

[VJ]

My parents were with a group of 5 in total that booked with Lufthansa + 1 person that booked with TUI.
So far no reply from Lufthansa, but Swiss (who operated the flight) replied to the 1 person that booked with TUI that the flight was delayed for safety reasons, and that because of that they are not responsible for people missing their connections - it is their own fault. So it does look like Swiss is going to play it dirty.

[VJ]

That 1 person got the Belgian ombudsman involved, and got a full refund for all costs made as well as damages.

And we got a reply! Lufthansa finally replied the German conciliation body. They offer to pay back the plane tickets and phone costs, but not the hotel cost in Warsaw (one night was charged for late cancellation), nor the train cost from Zürich to Brussels (this is the biggest cost), nor any compensation. Their explanation is that Swiss operated the flight, so Lufthansa is not responsible for this. They quote the EU regulation, which states that it is the operating airline - of course such detail is not on their website that explains the passenger's rights. In addition, I've learned that if the plane ticket mentions the operating airline, then this implies that that is also the contracted airline, so officially Lufthansa - which sold us the tickets - is not even the contracted airline!

How are you to know as a customer? It seems logical to assume that the seller is the contact point. Of course, thanks to their swift (!) replies, we are now past any term for filing a complaint with Swiss.

The German conciliation body allows us to accept or refuse this offer. Upon refusal, they will study the case and make an assessment - so basically they did not do anything other than passing it on to Lufthansa. If they would have checked it, they could have told me the complaint had to be to Swiss. And now the biggest joke: from their email, if both parties agree with that assessment, their job is done. If one party does not agree with the new assessment, there is nothing left for them to do (and Lufthansa is also no longer bound by their current offer). What?! So basically if I reject, Lufthansa can just reject any offer from the conciliation body and that ends it.

I have written a complaint to the European Office for Dispute Resolution; this is just making a mockery of passengers' rights.

So BIG lesson: file the complaint with the operating airline... or better yet: with every party involved.

[Umfriend]

I don;t really know about these things but am under the impression that consumer protection vis-a-vis airliners has greatly increased over the past 20 years. The written complaint, imho, is a very good move. The only real downside, I guess, is that you are forced (already though) to spend more time on such an affair than is warranted given the damages.

And yes, get an open file with all parties.

[VJ]

After I got the mail with the Lufthansa reply, I mailed to Swiss (to ask if it is still possible to file a claim), and flagged it with the EU's online dispute resolution body.
I just got a reply from Swiss that I can file the claim (not sure if they properly read my question - as supports usually don't, but I have a written document stating I can file). Let's get started for another year?

[UtwigMU]

We had a dispute with city over their claim of 180 EUR. We had to sue the city. Took 5 years, we settled (city did what we requested, we paid own lawyer costs).

[VJ]

Here the total claim is quite a bit more than that (over 3000 EUR in costs, not counting additional compensation)... It quickly add up when it concerns 5 people...

[VJ]

Just received confirmation from the EU Online Dispute Resolution office: Lufthansa is correct that the operating airline is to handle damage claims.
But: we can file with Swiss at this time as there is no term set (the fact it was over a year ago does not matter). Accepting or rejecting the Lufthansa offer makes no difference regarding the damage claim from Swiss. They also told me that they contacted the German conciliation body and passed on that they can help if Swiss does not reply (theoretically they can only help for German companies or for flights that departed/landed in Germany, but Swiss tends to be cooperative with them).
My parents already sent me the power of attorney documents, so I can file the claim on their behalf. Here we go again...

[VJ]

The claim is filed with Swiss... It is funny how difficult those websites (both Swiss and Lufthansa) make it to file claims. You are required to include scans of all documents to prove your claim, but then they limit the size and number of pdfs you can upload. When it concerns a claim for 5 people, those limits really become problematic. Coincidence or not, but the first two times I tried to submit it, the website just returned an error.

[Umfriend]

That reminds me of an old cartoon by Glasbergen. Someone making a call gets to a tape: "If you want to place a new order, press 1. If you want to inquire after the status of your order, press 2. If you want to cancel your order, press 5862147547713147."

[VJ]

Amazingly, I got a reply! They accept the entire claim; apart from all costs, we also receive 250 euro damage compensation per person. I can start the procedure for the refund.

The website to do so gave errors, but I hope that will be resolved next week.

[Umfriend]

De aanhouder wint!