Pitou

[Yannick]

Originally posted by XHotKolaX
The main problem is that, because the die area is so small...how would you disspate the heat? Probably less heat overall, but more heat per sqaure inch/cm/mm whatever they measure in.

I'm no specialist either. But consider the FC-PGA2 packaging that intel introduced for Tualatin processors... there was the same small die in the middle, but with a large heat spreader for more efficient heat dissipation. So supposing there's less heat overall, here must be some way to spread it wide enough for a heatsink to cope with...

[Kuba2k]

WOW
I did not see here so long thread for very very long time

[Muad'Dib]

Originally posted by Kuba2k
WOW
I did not see here so long thread for very very long time

Especially one that maintained it's original topic for so long....

As to the whole die size thing, I think it's more important for Matrox to fix the problems they have at the moment and THEN worry about the speed. Why would someone want Parhelia's features that looked like ass - I'm sure they could get an NV30 to look like ass just as well...

BTW, I love my Parhelia and am in no means comparing it to looking like ass - accept when it's got odd pulsating lines running up and down it in bright screens....

[Novdid]

Originally posted by Enak
Another friend I have has the 9700 Pro.

It truely is a very fast card... but the drivers are a bit weak... He's had quite a few crashes. However I've been told that he's found evidence that it's his motherboard causing the problems... he's upgrading soon so hopefully it will fix it.

Hey dont be so fast blaming the drivers, I have a 9700 Pro and the drivers are actually pretty stable.

On a side note. The FSAA of this board is magnificent, both quality and speedwise. The 6x AA is just gorgeous. Note that I haven't seen a Parhelia in action yet so I can't really compare the two.

[chaoliang]

Originally posted by Novdid


[...] Note that I haven't seen a Parhelia in action yet so I can't really compare the two.

What a pity. I just wanted to ask you about the comparison. Did anyone compare the two cards?

[Nappe1]

Originally posted by Novdid

On a side note. The FSAA of this board is magnificent, both quality and speedwise. The 6x AA is just gorgeous.

well, it should be.... Because 9700Pro truly is a AA Monster. with 4 channel MMU, 8 pixel pipelines and MSAA implementation, there's pretty much nothing slowing down spitting out that amount of AA samples as it does right now. (I wonder why they did limit the amount of samples to 6? I would have love to see 8 12 and maybe also 16 sample modes for lower resolutions.) As long as games don't get over active on the amount of textures per pass. (afaik, 9700 Pro has loopback on each pipe, so when Parhelia still gives 4 quad textured pixels per clock, 9700Pro needs at least 4 clocks to output all 8 lines... Another thing is that on the situation like this Parhelia most likely becomes a memorybandwidth limited.) When there's a 4 or more textures per pass, should 9700 start falling down. Too bad to Parhelia that's most likely not going to happen, because Games are moving more and more intelligent multipass rendering techs.

and yeah, I am still going go for Parhelia, but while waiting few things like money, I'll keep my eyes open.

[knirfie]

arent those seven days up yet???

[chaoliang]

For me it must not be a P2. A well refined P with a smaller price tag will just do!

[Hati]

The news at www.3dcenter.de today :
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In einem sehr langem Thread im Forum der Matrox Users gibt es einige Neuigkeiten zu Matrox-Grafikkarten zu entdecken (Zusammenfassung). So steht eine Parhelia 8X als AGPx8-Ausführung der bisherigen Parhelia fertig bei Matrox bereit. Diese wird jedoch erst vorgestellt und ausgeliefert werden, sobald der derzeitige Lagerbestand an "normalen" Parhelias abgebaut ist. Unsicher ist, ob diese Karte noch andere Verbesserungen haben wird: Es gibt die (unbestätigte) Vermutung, daß die Parhelia 8X noch einige andere Hardware-Fixes und höhere Taktfrequenzen haben wird ...

... Jedoch entspricht diese Parhelia 8X nicht dem schon länger spekulativ vermuteten Parhelia 2 Chip. Jener ist aber in der Tat unter dem Codenamen "Pitou" in Arbeit. Das Tape-Out dieses Chips soll sogar schon vollzogen sein, was ungefähr noch drei bis sechs Monate bis zur Massenfertigung (und damit zur offiziellen Vorstellung) bedeutet. Zu den technischen Daten gibt es bisher nur die blumige Aussage, daß die Parhelia 2 nicht wie eine G450 zur G400 aussieht (nicht schneller, aber mehr wesentlich Business-Features), sondern jenes übersteigen soll, was die G400 zur G200 darstellt (dramatisch schneller und mehr 3D-Features).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With a direct link to this thread.

[superfly]

Originally posted by Nappe1


well, it should be.... Because 9700Pro truly is a AA Monster. with 4 channel MMU, 8 pixel pipelines and MSAA implementation, there's pretty much nothing slowing down spitting out that amount of AA samples as it does right now. (I wonder why they did limit the amount of samples to 6? I would have love to see 8 12 and maybe also 16 sample modes for lower resolutions.) As long as games don't get over active on the amount of textures per pass. (afaik, 9700 Pro has loopback on each pipe, so when Parhelia still gives 4 quad textured pixels per clock, 9700Pro needs at least 4 clocks to output all 8 lines... Another thing is that on the situation like this Parhelia most likely becomes a memorybandwidth limited.) When there's a 4 or more textures per pass, should 9700 start falling down. Too bad to Parhelia that's most likely not going to happen, because Games are moving more and more intelligent multipass rendering techs.

and yeah, I am still going go for Parhelia, but while waiting few things like money, I'll keep my eyes open.

In a nutshell...P2 should ideally have at least the same performance as the current 9700 pro has,but of course keep their triple head support for both 2D/3D and make their FAA tech work in all games...

[thop]

Originally posted by superfly

[superfly]

Originally posted by thop

Was a little too quick.....Must be all the coffee i've been drinking lately....

[Enak]

Hey dont be so fast blaming the drivers

Well... ATI don't have a particularly good track record

I did say though that there was reason to believe the motherboard was at fault... Until the new CPU and RAM turns up the MSI 845PE Max2 FIR is a bit useless.

The main problem is that, because the die area is so small...how would you disspate the heat?

Just because you are using 9 micron architecture doesn't mean the die has to be small... just take a look at how big the chip is at the moment! Matrox need to cram more features into the die so using a 9 micron process is not likely to shrink the chip that much. Matrox also seem to be able to get their chips running cooler than others anyway so heat will be combated on several fronts.

Did anyone compare the two cards?

Not yet... I just know it's bloody fast. When I get chance (perhaps the next LAN party) I'll definately be having a good look.

[Wombat]

Process changes, die sizes, clockspeeds, and heat generation/dissipation have been covered very thoroughly over in General Hardware. Go read up.

[Chrono_Wanderer]

Does anoyone knows how many layers is the P chip/PCB is using? Just wondering.