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Mozilla suggestions (since someone locked the other thread)

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  • #76
    IMHO it's about cross platform compatibility:
    - For instance 3D apps and dtp markets are divided among several software makers.

    I can import DXF created in Archicad on a Mac to AutoCAD running on a PC.

    Or I can create Postscript or .pdf out of Corel draw and submit it to Macintosh based service bureau or to image setter rip running on Linux seamlessly provided I call or visit the webpage of service bureau to download their postscript driver. (I could probably create .pdf without that.)

    Now if you take Office, operating systems or web browsers, where one company's market share dominates the market to an extent that others’ are negligible:

    Market share is important and Microsoft knows that even if there are better products, compatibility will hinder usability. Of course Microsoft is a company and companies are out to make money.

    So in markets where they are dominant they don’t need a better product (however they need better marketing) until competition forces them to make one. Take a look at Microsoft mice: They are good because if they sucked people would simply buy Logitech or other’s pointing devices.

    Take a look at Windows 2000, which was an OS to establish Microsoft on a server side. Not only is it better than previous versions, it’s also more compatible with TCP/IP networking which came from Unix world. (Other platforms DNS, file, web and even WINE servers as well as clients can now better integrate with Windows network.)

    Also take a look at windows media: At some point MS found out no one is using windows media because it doesn’t support mp3 and doesn’t provide skinability. Now that Windows media is used extensively (because of mp3, skinability and streaming formats support on the server side) and their market share is big they can start enforcing proprietary standards.

    Now take a look at Office and Web browsers: If you were to run any serious business you’d make sure your documents can be opened in Word and your web site would work in IE, regardless if open Office is better and Mozilla is more compatible with W3C standards.

    Competition is good; it’s a nature of capitalism. Now IMO open source is the only way to compete with Microsoft in OS, office and browser field. Any company (as a business model) which would start selling operating system for x86, office or browser would either fail or gain insignificant markets hare in niche markets.

    My opinion on open source:
    There are applications, which require power users. Administering any serious corporate network requires people who know. Although Windows desktop is intuitive and easy for users, server side certainly isn’t a piece of cake. IMO administering either Linux or Windows requires people who have spent more then an afternoon learning. Now any intelligent person will not have as hard time switching from one platform to another if he/she realizes the benefits.

    The problem is with desktop users who barely know where Start button is.

    For one corporation to switch it would require training or hiring (job fluctuation is expensive) administrators, as well as training or hiring new users. This would result in costs of training and in cost of loss of productivity. Cost of labour is still the biggest part of equation. Also validating OEM servers and OEMs hiring Linux support force would lower their margins.

    I’ve seen quite a few small companies switch to Linux on the server side and lots of web sites are running on Apache. But for large companies as of now costs of server licences are not as high as cost of training and labour.

    My stance on Mozilla: it clearly has advantages (popup blocking, tabbed browsing, W3C compatibility) and disadvantages (GUI incompatible with Windows standards, some websites don’t support it) as well as IE. I’m using it as my main browser, and use IE for some sites, which have poor compatibility.

    I think we should get down from our high horse: open source suX/r0x0rz, Microsoft r0x0rz/suX (in no particular order). Not all users, companies and applications of platforms are the same. Clearly both have advantages and disadvantages and it boils down to your particular case and whether you are open minded enough to consider both platforms and decide for one, other or mixture of based on costs and benefits.

    One more thing; Software companies to an extent tolerate piracy:
    - If user use pirated version of your software they don’t use competition = market share.
    - If home users/students use pirated versions of serious software and invest time in learning curve they’ll use that product once they get employed/start business.
    - Only recently has Microsoft started enforcing WPA on Windows and Office. They are preventing “causal copying” but not “serious copying”.
    - BSA is only seriously pursuing companies (who are making profit using software and can be fined and forced to settle/buy licences) and serious pirates (who are making profit and can be made examples).

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by leech
      Because, in my not so humble opinion, no matter how much they try to improve their products, they'll always suck for the the simple reason that ONLY they can improve it. Open sourced projects have a lot less security issues for the very reason that they are open.
      Well, your not so humble opinion is rather biased, if I may say so. So, you're saying *every* *single* *piece* of closed source software *sucks* because only the companies involved can improve on it? Ahahahaha. So, OfficeXP..."sucks", Windows2000..."sucks", Photoshop 7..."sucks", Dreamweaver MX..."sucks", Winamp..."sucks".
      And besides, there IS a problem with IE being free. Because they are the standard operating system, they pretty much make the average computer user use IE. And that is against what the DOJ has said, and yet they still haven't complied. Even now with SP1 they're finally doing what they should have been doing all along
      It's quite easy for me to change the default browser. Who cares what the DoJ say? The RIAA haven't been forced out of their bad practices. That's ok though, because the DoJ haven't said they should.

      And finally, they are doing stuff with SP1 that they should've been doing all along... this is a problem why? Should I stop using Mozilla because Netscape 4 sucks. No, I base Mozilla on what it offers now.

      That's just my humble opinion though, I await correction by someone who is obviously got their eyes open, and see both sides of the argument.

      P.

      PS: My vacuum...sucks. Software doesn't.
      Meet Jasmine.
      flickr.com/photos/pace3000

      Comment


      • #78
        [QUOTE]Originally posted by Pace
        Well, your not so humble opinion is rather biased, if I may say so. So, you're saying *every* *single* *piece* of closed source software *sucks* because only the companies involved can improve on it? Ahahahaha. So, OfficeXP..."sucks", Windows2000..."sucks", Photoshop 7..."sucks", Dreamweaver MX..."sucks", Winamp..."sucks".[QUOTE]

        I never specifically stated that EVERY closed source product sucks. Because most software companies actually care about their reputation, for instance Adobe. They know if they release a crappy, shoddy product, then they'll lose a lot of die hard fans. Microsoft on the other hand knows that they can release shoddy products, because they have the greatest market share in the OS department. If other OS's were around to create more of a competition, then they would be forced to release a better product. And that simply is the way it works. But when you're talking on a scale of something that uses standards that ARE NOT created by microsoft themselves, then it's better to have it opensourced so that ANYONE can work on the program to make it compliant with those standards that are put forth.

        It's quite easy for me to change the default browser. Who cares what the DoJ say? The RIAA haven't been forced out of their bad practices. That's ok though, because the DoJ haven't said they should.

        And finally, they are doing stuff with SP1 that they should've been doing all along... this is a problem why? Should I stop using Mozilla because Netscape 4 sucks. No, I base Mozilla on what it offers now.

        That's just my humble opinion though, I await correction by someone who is obviously got their eyes open, and see both sides of the argument.

        P.

        PS: My vacuum...sucks. Software doesn't.
        Well, with SP1 don't you think it should have been that way with the initial release, rather than making people who paid good money for WindowsXP to wait a year for it?

        PS: Sounds like a personal issue with your vaccum

        Leech
        Wah! Wah!

        In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship.

        Comment


        • #79
          UtwigMU said it best. Thank you, come again

          Leech
          Wah! Wah!

          In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship.

          Comment


          • #80
            Your discussions skills astound all.
            Meet Jasmine.
            flickr.com/photos/pace3000

            Comment


            • #81
              OK, I just have to throw in my .02 Sorry, Deal with it.


              First. Is Microsoft better than OSS? Yes. And No.

              Yes, because their OS is easy to use. For the desktop, the average user cannot use windows well. Linux is not a viable option as a CORPORATE desktop replacement, yet.

              No. They are expensive, and their new pricing scheme is penalizing corporations for not upgrading every software cycle.

              Servers: Is Linux the Answer? Yes. And No.

              For a firewall, Web, DNS, or router Linux is great. Much better and more secure than the average Windows server. For application, file and print servers, MS has an advantage. Please don't flame me with Samba. It is NOT a valid replacement. And everyone knows NIX is not the answer for corporate print servers.

              As the I.T. Director for a mortgage company, I have decided NEITHER meets my needs. I use BOTH. I have linux for the web, firewall and DNS. MS for the desktop, and Novell for Print, File and Email. (Had licenses for Novell, so might as well use it.)

              I would love to move to all Linux. Is it cost effective? NO.
              The OS is free. Rewriting ALL the financial software to run on it? That makes moving to linux MUCH more costly than use XP. And that does not even count the training needed to get employees up to speed to even work on a linux desktop.

              OK, BOT. Mozilla is great, I like it. For the coporate? Sorry, more hassle than the benefit. IE does work, and users are used to it.

              Sorry for the long post.

              The Chicken
              "I dream of a better world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned."

              Comment


              • #82
                I have over 500 users using mozilla on the network as the default browser, it is very very easy to configure and correct if anyone messes with their profile, user.js is great.
                As for email, I (as yet) have never had a problem with email viruses as they are still primarily aimed at ms mailers.
                We are using win98 to xp and all profiles work on all platforms which is great.

                I do have problems with some sites which insist that I upgrade to ie, and I have problems with java on some sites, this strangely enough is usually uk gov sites or departments.

                The latest beta 1.3b seems to have overcome most of these problems.

                I do have complaints from users saying they want ie as the default, all i say is why? I have yet heard a positive argument.

                breezer
                Everything I say is true apart from that which is not

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                • #83
                  Just curious but has anyone tried Fast Browser Pro?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Well, just tried it....

                    ....doesn't seem to like multimonitor for me...

                    Edit: seems OK with normal, but not pro version...
                    Let us return to the moon, to stay!!!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      So far, it's been ok and very fast for me in TH.

                      I'm using Pro 5.3.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I'm using dualhead independent...
                        Let us return to the moon, to stay!!!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Lynx anyone - teh blaz0ring fast bro\/\/5aR

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            leech: Putting your reply inside the quote doesn't help readability. However, now I notice that you've replied in there, I see that your rose tinted specs remain firmly attached. In general, open source does well in the areas that the programmers are interested - security, reliability etc. Closed source from the big companies tend to excel in the areas where the general consumer is concerned - usability, intuitive interface. However, you said closed source sucks because only the people involved can improve on it. Well then, why is the best desktop OS, the best word processor, the best spreadsheet, one of the best browsers, the best photo manipulation program, the best vector graphics programs, the best of almost every piece of desktop software all closed source? Because closed source works as a business model, and they can invest. Open source often fails because they miss what they are targetting.

                            That's the 2 sides of the story. Capisce?

                            SP1? Hello, we're going round in circles. You say that you don't like XP because SP1's features came a year after its release. So...by my earlier comparison, I don't like Mozilla, because NS4 should've offered what it offers. Take products on what we have now. Should I ignore Radeons and GeForces because Rages and Riva128s are crap? Bleh.

                            Byock: Stop taking us further off topic

                            breezer: A lot of people find it hard changing what they're used to, so that's likely to be the top argument. While I'd generally say Linux is less user friendly, a lot of its problems are because its different to the way Windows works. Hmm, going way OT, I'll leave this before I drag Corel Linux into it

                            Lynx: bleh I've never tested my pages in it, but I'll trust they work
                            Meet Jasmine.
                            flickr.com/photos/pace3000

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I see your point Pace, but I don't get people saying they want xp or Office xp on their machines, though one of out bosses wanted us to change to because the pc she just brought had a different wp.

                              Breezer
                              Everything I say is true apart from that which is not

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                About the tabbed browsing in Mozilla. I believe this hasn't been mentioned before on Murc.

                                But there's a nice plugin for Mozilla multizilla that improves the tabbed browsing feature.
                                Main: Dual Xeon LV2.4Ghz@3.1Ghz | 3X21" | NVidia 6800 | 2Gb DDR | SCSI
                                Second: Dual PIII 1GHz | 21" Monitor | G200MMS + Quadro 2 Pro | 512MB ECC SDRAM | SCSI
                                Third: Apple G4 450Mhz | 21" Monitor | Radeon 8500 | 1,5Gb SDRAM | SCSI

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