Mozilla suggestions (since someone locked the other thread)

[Pace]

Good points Jesterzwild.

As for webstandards, my mission in life is to comply

Of course, that doesn't just mean running my <acronym title="Hyper-Text Markup Language">HTML</acronym> through a validator to check for missing alternate text attributes on images

[Jessterw]

Web standards compliance is a multi-faceted affair. There's HTML, CSS, Accessibility, and more depending. Alot of us hand code our pages or use WYSIWYG editors (that aren't always outputing compliant code), so of course there are going to be errors here and there (I've been known to forget alt attributes on my images at times).

I just asked the question because I know almost everyone is concerned with the standards compliance of browsers (and love to pick of IE for failing in some places on this), but yet pay little attention to these same standards when designing/coding pages.

To get back to the topic, my suggestions for Mozilla are as follows:

• Better handling of tabbed browsing (this means being able to set an option so that Mozilla never opens new windows, just tabs)
• A better mail client
• A better IRC client
• An option to set a profile as default so that I don't always have to select it
• etc.

Edit: Yeah I'm being nit picky, I just don't have that many gripes with Moz.

[Pace]

Indeed, web accessibility is one area people miss out. I've only recently started getting into it more, down to, well, you know who

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Jesterzwild
[*]A better mail client[/list]

What exactly is "Wrong" with mozillas email client ???

[Jessterw]

Originally posted by Technoid
What exactly is "Wrong" with mozillas email client ???

Nothing is wrong with it per se. It just needs to be a little more full featured. I'm being a little nit picky since I don't have a whole lot of gripes when it comes to Mozilla. I also realize that the mail client isn't a top priority, but it's also being worked on as the dev team moves along.

[Technoid]

[leech]

Better handling of tabbed browsing (this means being able to set an option so that Mozilla never opens new windows, just tabs)

There is a way, but instead of clicking with the left mouse button, click with the middle one. Go under preferences and Tabbed browsing, there is the option "Middle-click or contro-click of inks in a web page" Also in Galeon 1.3.1, all external links open in tabs. Pop-ups, other websites, whatever.

Pace, the main reason that 'one' page doesn't work in IE is mainly due to IE's incredibly poor support of the PNG format. It doesn't support the transparancies properly. And yes, I DO code html for both IE and mozilla to make sure it complies. For instance, I have added transparencies to a CSS menu, you have to use '-moz-opacity: 75%' for Mozilla and 'filter: alpha(opacity=75)' for IE. It'd be much nicer if there were just ONE command that both would follow. That's why the W3C was invented in the first place, to try to create a web standard. Mozilla tries to comply, whereas IE tries to create it's own standards so that pages won't work in competing products, and since most people (here I'm talking about the masses that don't know about any alternative) use IE, then those non-standard ways of coding HTML mess up the display for all the other browsers. My opinion would be completely different if Microsoft had invented the standards, and everyone tried to play catch up with them. But they did not. They saw a way to make money and another market in the computer field that they did not dominate and had a go for it. Much the same way as they brought DirectX to the table to compete with SGI's OpenGL.

Leech

[Pace]

Bleh, I'll get back to you, too much crap for one night.

[Jessterw]

Originally posted by leech
There is a way, but instead of clicking with the left mouse button, click with the middle one. Go under preferences and Tabbed browsing, there is the option "Middle-click or contro-click of inks in a web page" Also in Galeon 1.3.1, all external links open in tabs. Pop-ups, other websites, whatever.

Yeah I know about that, maybe I should have worded it better. What I mean is I would like to see an option so that any page would always open in a new tab instead of a new window, like what is in Opera.

That's why the W3C was invented in the first place, to try to create a web standard. Mozilla tries to comply, whereas IE tries to create it's own standards so that pages won't work in competing products, and since most people (here I'm talking about the masses that don't know about any alternative) use IE, then those non-standard ways of coding HTML mess up the display for all the other browsers. My opinion would be completely different if Microsoft had invented the standards, and everyone tried to play catch up with them. But they did not. They saw a way to make money and another market in the computer field that they did not dominate and had a go for it. Much the same way as they brought DirectX to the table to compete with SGI's OpenGL.

Let's not forget that Netscape was just as bad as IE once upon a time. In fact that didn't change until the Mozilla project started, using an essentially fresh (new) code-base. The IE development team is still having to deal with a code-base that was created back when Netscape was the dominant browser. Both browsers/companies were guilty of creating proprietary "standards" of their own in order to compete. In fact, the reason Netscape supported some standards were because those were standards they helped create, same with Microsoft (who has actually had a hand in developing some of the standards). To say that IE still is dealing in it's own standards alone is misleading. Sure it still supports some proprietary standards that were developed for IE only... nothing wrong with that, as it's up to the web developer to know which is which (the mess we're in with web standards is everyone's fault).

Sure IE isn't perfect, it doesn't do CSS2 100% yet and requres some hacks to display the same as other browsers. However some of the issues over the CSS problems are because of the misunderstanding (even amongst W3C people) about how some of the specifications are intended to be read/interpreted/rendered.

As far as the comment on competition goes... what's wrong with it? I mean DirectX is a great technology, why shouldn't MS have developed and promoted it? There will always, and should, be competing technologies/standards... it's what drives the industry.

[Pace]

Yeah, I echo you again kind sir

The competition statement boggles me as well. So...Microsoft shouldn't have made an Internet Browser or a graphics API. They should've stuck with GUI desktops and office packages.

Oh, and therefore...Linux shouldn't have made a GUI available, they should've remained a server OS. Galeon et al shouldn't have came about! It's competition...it's bad..! Mwuahaha!

[leech]

Competition itself isn't wrong, it indeed is what drives the industry. But Microsoft doesn't make any money on things like DirectX or IE. In my opinion they created it solely for the intention of having their name on everything computer related. DirectX's SDK last time I checked was a free download. And IE of course comes with their OS now (in fact in many ways IS there OS). Also Netscape and OpenGL were not 'free' back when IE and DirectX came out either. Netscape was only free for personal use, but you still have to download it.

As far as linux having a GUI now.... well what can I say, linux is OPEN SOURCE so anyone and everyone can do whatever they want with it. And apparently people like GUI's so that's where it's going.

And yes, I'm aware that Netscape and IE both have created their own 'standards' but it's not a standard unless every browser will do it properly, hence why the W3C was created in the first place.

Leech

[leech]

Go here http://www.linuxgames.com/news/feedb...ction=flatview

and read the post at the bottom. You think I'm bad, listen to this guy

Leech

[Pace]

Originally posted by leech
Competition itself isn't wrong, it indeed is what drives the industry.

Ya think?

Yeah, I think we knew that

But Microsoft doesn't make any money on things like DirectX or IE.

Ya think?

Er, can you imagine Windows without IE and DirectX? We'd be stuck on Netscape 4.2 and all round crappy browsing, and Glide, OpenGL and maybe another proprietary API or 2...

In my opinion they created it solely for the intention of having their name on everything computer related.

Ya think? Sorry, I await to find out why they shouldn't do that.

DirectX's SDK last time I checked was a free download.

And this is a problem why?

And IE of course comes with their OS now (in fact in many ways IS there OS). Also Netscape and OpenGL were not 'free' back when IE and DirectX came out either. Netscape was only free for personal use, but you still have to download it.

So, Microsoft gives stuff away free?

And you did still have to download IE at points, and still do for updates, they just pop the latest one on your Windows CD for you. Explain what's wrong with that.

As far as linux having a GUI now.... well what can I say, linux is OPEN SOURCE so anyone and everyone can do whatever they want with it. And apparently people like GUI's so that's where it's going.

It was mocking your statement.

And yes, I'm aware that Netscape and IE both have created their own 'standards' but it's not a standard unless every browser will do it properly, hence why the W3C was created in the first place.

Bleh

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by Pace
IE sucks at CSS? Ahahahaha, really? background-attachment: fixed - we've found the first page I've *ever* seen that uses this in such a manner so that IE displays it wrong. And why was it created - to be a good webpage design? No, specifically to show that IE displays it wrong

From http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edg...iral/demo.html
The page you are viewing right now exists to show off what can be accomplished with pure CSS1 and a little teeny piece of CSS2 (specifically, the hover effects on hyperlinks). Remember: as you look this demo over, there is no Javascript here, nor are any PNGs being used, nor do I employ any proprietary extensions to CSS or any other language. It's all done using straight W3C-recommended markup and styling, all validated, plus a total of four (4) images.

And I happen to think it looks very nice in any case.

As for Direct3D, it was actually pretty horrible until about DX6 or 7, yet MS kept pushing it onto everyone as much as possible. They could do this because they controlled the platform - if anyone else had tried to introduce a 3D API as bad as early Direct3D, and face off against OpenGL with it, they would have failed very, very quickly. See http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/windo...sDirect3D.html and read as much as you have the stamina for.

Why did MS (supposedly) merge IE into Windows? Why did they tie D3D to Windows as much as possible (OpenGL is very portable) and try to replace OpenGL with it? Leech didn't put it strongly enough; MS are not competing, they are using the infrastructure they control (Windows and its ubiquity) to deny the competition a level playing field.

[leech]

Originally posted by Ribbit
And I happen to think it looks very nice in any case.

As for Direct3D, it was actually pretty horrible until about DX6 or 7, yet MS kept pushing it onto everyone as much as possible. They could do this because they controlled the platform - if anyone else had tried to introduce a 3D API as bad as early Direct3D, and face off against OpenGL with it, they would have failed very, very quickly. See http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/windo...sDirect3D.html and read as much as you have the stamina for.

Why did MS (supposedly) merge IE into Windows? Why did they tie D3D to Windows as much as possible (OpenGL is very portable) and try to replace OpenGL with it? Leech didn't put it strongly enough; MS are not competing, they are using the infrastructure they control (Windows and its ubiquity) to deny the competition a level playing field.

Thank you. Enough said, Pace.

And for the record, IE's 'updates' are nothing more than MS fixing crap that should have been fixed before release in the FIRST place. In example, the updates that were released today. One of which was to make it better for default web browsers other than IE.

Plus the other one which read like most of the other security updates for WinXP. 'This is to prevent other people taking over your computer if you visit their web sites.' Or some such nonsense. How many of those have YOU seen?

Leech