The IT industry is shifting away from Micro$oft

[Kurt]

So both Windows and Linux have got pros and cons...

The fact is, here in Belgium at least, only big companies have anything approaching hired IT staff.

Well, they represent 4% of all companies.

I'm sure tons are happily using Linux/Unix. That leaves about 96 % to Microsoft and Apple (given lots of graphic work is still done in a Mac environment).

Out of these 4%, I wonder how many actually have hired programmers that debug Linux - or any open source program for that matter.

So, if you don't have staff for fixing stuff, how are you supposed to do with Linux? Put the secretary on it??

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by cjolley
In other words, you admit that what you are talking about is our programmers taking ownership of the OS code.

Erm, no...

I've fixed a couple of Linux kernel bugs myself (admittedly only minor ones), sent the changes to the relevant people, and had them accepted. But you won't find me claiming any kind of ownership of any Linux code. I just fixed a couple of bugs which affected me.

If I'd implemented some new system/feature like the new RAID6 subsystem it would be different, but that's not what we're (or at least I'm) talking about.

[cjolley]

hmm... terminology

Taking Ownership means you are responsible. At least within your own organization.
Once you start changing the OS code your organization uses you "own" it.
Just like all the other code your programming staff maintains.

The person maintaining the code for the rest of the world has no responsibility to your organization.
You do.
chuck

[The PIT]

Biggest thread of this forum for ages you know.

[leech]

Originally posted by The PIT
Biggest thread of this forum for ages you know.

I know, isn't it great?

For cjolley;

Uhm, didn't YOU give an example of NSA? Hey, I can bet that somewhere, sometime there is some CEO of a company that worries about backdoors and actually has someone do security audits of their software. Much easier if you have the source, plain and simple.

With all the new nasties out there for Windows XP, I'm sure there are a lot more CEO's out there that are paranoid of such things. MSBlast being caused simply because MS left a port open, one that shouldn't have really been open in the first place!

The person maintaining the code for the rest of the world has no responsibility to your organization.
You do.

At least with the GPL... that's not the way it works. Other licenses of course may be different. But generally you don't want to have a slightly different fork just because you fixed a bug. If you follow the spirit of Open Source, you'll send that bug to the maintainer, then that code would still be under the responsibility of the original maintainer. All you did was add a patch. Your company wouldn't suddenly "own" the code. Frankly, if you took someone else's hard work, and found a bug, fixed it, then said "Oh look at this, now this is all MY code" then I'd probably want to kick you in the groin.

And the person who maintains the original code, wouldn't have responsibility to your organization anyhow, unless you paid them. But they WOULD have the responsibility AS maintainer, to at least be helpful to you if you gave back to his code. Make sense? That's the true spirit of Open Source right there.

Leech

Leech

[Wombat]

Ahh yes, the NSA. Remember this?

http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/5263/1.html

[The PIT]

Just found another weakness in Linux well under RH 9 anyway. If the hostname is dupclicated your desktop runs like shit. Now isn't that good. Dunno if other distros do this but probably do.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by leech
IWith all the new nasties out there for Windows XP, I'm sure there are a lot more CEO's out there that are paranoid of such things. MSBlast being caused simply because MS left a port open, one that shouldn't have really been open in the first place!

It was a bug in the code the port is still open after patching. Now you could argue microsoft policy is wrong in having these ports open by default. Linux also has security bugs as well dunno how many security bugs were fixed in this weeks 83mb download from Mandrake this week.

[leech]

That obviously wasn't just kernel updates! Since the kernel packages are usually not that big at all.

Leech

[leech]

One of my biggest bitches about any Windows OS is the SCHEDULED downtime. I don't mean the unscheduled reboots and crashes, those actually have been lessening a lot since 2000 came out. But the fact that EVERY freaking thing you install anymore requires a reboot. Hell, I've had GAMES that required reboots. (and no, this isn't after I installed DirectX.) That's just wrong in my opinion. With linux, literally the only reason you ever have to reboot it is for a kernel update (which would be a scheduled downtime for sure, but only once in a while you have to do this. For security purposes etc.) But if I recall, they were working on a way to make it so you could actually load up new kernels on the fly. I'm not sure how far this has gotten yet though. I'd provide a link, but I need to go to work (lousy real life).

Leech

[The PIT]

Originally posted by leech
That obviously wasn't just kernel updates! Since the kernel packages are usually not that big at all.

Leech

No kernel normally 13 to 20mb in size.

[The PIT]

Leech a lot of requested reboots are hang overs from the earlier days and under XP are not needed. Poor lazy programming. True XP still has too many reboots.
Windoze update bugs me for rebooting the machine without the users permission. Just put the notification to then user saying the machine needs rebooting after saving your work. Also it would be useful if the autodate could be performed on login.

[DukeP]

Read my rant about the way poor driver implementation (by philips) requried 2 reboots just to install an USB device...

Sigh.

~~DukeP~~

[leech]

Speaking of drivers. I now vote that Hewlett Packard gets the shitty drivers of the year award!

After many reboots/re-installs/uninstalls I could not get my mother's PSC 1210 to work again. The PSC 1210 is one of those All in One things, Scanner/Copier/Printer. It was working, 'til I tried to print something to it through samba. I tried the wrong driver apparently through cups, and it HAD gotten through, 'cause I checked the print queue and there was several remote print jobs. One was stuck though, and I tried to delete it. Well, as anyone knows that has had the headaches of dealing with printer queues in Windows, the bugger won't delete a print job until that print job is stopped. Well, it won't let me delete it even then. Finally I just went into the printer and faxes folder and removed the damn thing. Well, after sitting there forever, it finally deleted it. Well, then it wouldn't let me add it again. I removed the software, downloaded the latest driver (172MB by the way!!) And then re-installed it, again, and again, and again. And of course every time I re-installed, I had to uninstall it, and every time I uninstalled it, I had to reboot. I used their little driver cleaning program, called HP AiO Scrubber" but it didn't work either.

Today or tomorrow, I'll try a WinXp repair, hopefully that'll wipe the driver cache and let me install the damned thing! The Scanner part of it works now, but the printer part does not. I've tried manually telling it the driver to use, but that doesn't work either.

Leech

[Kurt]

The FUN of all-in-one's...