car buying these days...

[VJ]

Thanx for the info on the info.

Just bear in mind that these are just our opinions. We have a bit weird requirements: good in city, silent on highway, comfortable; mainly for two people. I don't care about "sportiveness" or big luggage space. Would be interesting if it could move 4 people in comfort and move stuff.

I liked the CH-R on the outside but once I saw that screen inside I know I would never get one. I don't want a TV in my car. Also not that life of LCD screens is 5-7 years and it will cost 500-1000 EUR to replace once it dies.
Also the CVT - one coworker had a Corolla. As a little kid you learn cars go wrooom, mhooowroom, mhowrooom...
CVT goes zzhhhzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzrrrrzzzz. It's just wrong.

Mazda is a lot more sane by putting stuff related to driving and their center screen is smaller. Also they have robotic 6 speed gearbox instead of that CVT crap.

I'm not too conviced on the issues with the lcd (my 8" Kenwood navigation has 12 years, car always parked outside, and is going strong), but I get your point. Still, no escaping lcd's in cars now.

We drove the Mazda CX-30. Ok, it was great. A bit of a cramped feeling inside (lower edge of the windows is quite high) but not disturbing (perhaps a bit more in the back). But the finishing, looks, comfort, ... superb. My wife loved the headup display, my brain just filtered it out , perhaps I need more time to get used to it.
Compared to the Subaru: in general a bit less space on the back and more difficult entry, slightly more enclosed/cramped feeling, a bit worse visibility (mainly to the back, but not as problematic as the C-HR) but it is still a candidate. It is cheaper than the Subaru - even in four wheel drive - and drives well. Should also be cheaper in maintenance (we asked costs). Fuel usage on paper is less, but some comparison reviews claim the CX-30 uses more than on paper while the XV uses less, putting them rather close.
According to reviews, the CX-30 has slightly higher highway noise (we did not get to test at highway speeds) and actually a worse gearbox (the CVT in Subaru's are apparently the best CVTs out there, while the Mazda has a rather primitive automatic gearbox). The CX-30 four wheel drive is not intended for off-roading (according to the Mazda user manual) but to provide stability and improved handling on normal roads. But it is not a permanent four wheel drive so a bit more limited (not sure if we would go for four wheel drive, but just listing the differences).
I did not have that zzhhhzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzrrrrzzzz feeling you describe with the Subaru, the CH-R had it somewhat. But I don't care about noise: I want it to be quiet, so if the noise is not obtrusive, I don't care how it sounds like. The CH-R also had quite an annoying buzzing sound which lasted for 5-10 seconds, every half a minute or minute.
The smaller screen on the Mazda is compensated by a central driver screen: the speedometer is digital (its outline is fixed, but it can display other info) and the optional HUD. So there is more display real-estate than first meets the eye.

We also drove a Kia XCeed. It is a lower category of car (at a much lower price), but we had the opportunity. It is not a bad car. Not really what we are looking for, but I honestly can say that it drove ok, not too loud, quite good visibility. It had quite a weird engine noise, a low frequency woooo even at low speeds.

We also went to the DS Automobiles showroom: I wanted to see the DS4 upclose. On photos it looks nice and stylish, but in reality it looked kitchy and lacking style.

[UtwigMU]

I liked the CH-R on the outside but once I saw that screen inside I know I would never get one. I don't want a TV in my car. Also not that life of LCD screens is 5-7 years and it will cost 500-1000 EUR to replace once it dies.

Also the CVT - one coworker had a Corolla. As a little kid you learn cars go wrooom, mhooowroom, mhowrooom...

CVT goes zzhhhzzzzrrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzrrrrzzzz. It's just wrong.

Mazda is a lot more sane by putting stuff related to driving and their center screen is smaller. Also they have robotic 6 speed gearbox instead of that CVT crap.

[paulw]

Thanx for the info on the info. My wife wants to trade in her 2 year old Mazda 2 LTD for a Toyota Yaris ZR hybrid. There is a about a 12 month wait for the ZR here at present but they do have a Ruby Red color coming that is a canceled order. Went to have a look at one today but it was out so will have another look on Monday. She wants to go back to Toyota again because there is no Mazda dealer here where we live and its a 45 minute trip to the nearest Mazda dealer for servicing etc and there's only so much you can do in a smallish town to kill 4 hours while the car is serviced. I have a Mazda CX5 but I'll keep that as the current batch of RAV 4 you buy here have no hybrid or if you can get one it may take 12 months with all the vehicle shortages. The ideal RAV 4 I'd like is the RAV 4 Prime Plug in hybrid but that seems US only at present.

VJ . Good luck in your looking.

[VJ]

We went to Toyota... Yaris Cross looks quite big but not exactly what we are looking for (it is more a big city car, but less for highway driving). Corolla was quite low, and a very weird trunk (the rear bumper is very big, so you have to lift things quite a long distance into the car to put it in there), the RAV4 is not Euro 4d, and then there is the C-HR, which we drove.

We both do not like the outside looks of the C-HR, but if the rest is fine we might be able to get over it. But it felt cramped: the center screen gives the impression that it is blocking your view (even though it is not - it is just too much "in your face"), the dashboard generally looks weird. They tried to put all the controls quite high, squashing them together and putting a standing tablet on top. The gear lever is almost below the center console (or it feels like that) - not a big deal at it is an automatic, but trying to describe it a bit. Worse to me, something felt off with the steering wheel: either it was not centered in front of the driver, or it was not parallel (distance driver-left side of the wheel, and driver-right side of the wheel). Seats in the tested car were ok, but not more than that... and those were the higher trim version's. The back of the car is very claustrophobic: the sloping roof and small windows completely put you in the dark. The blindspot is big and a bit disorienting: you see a lot in the outside mirror, but somehow it is difficult to match what (little) you see in the inside mirror with what happens in the outside mirror. There is quite a gap and I guess some distortion. The blindspot detection is quite annoying: it is a nice looking icon in the mirror that lights up, but when looking in the mirror, it is so central and detailed that your eyes focus on the short distance to that icon rather than on the distance. Almost like they consider that: if the light is on, you don't need to see what is there as you won't be able to change lanes. But I would like to see it to plan ahead. It may be something to get used to, but e.g. on the Subaru it was a small light on the edge of the mirror, not obscuring or drawing attention away from the reflected image.

The more basic version of the seats - which they had in the showroom - were quite uncomfortable. Generally, all those cars were very dark inside... and weirdly proportioned. I bumped my head getting into the back of the Corolla, my wife bumped hers getting into the C-HR... So while we would put it above the VW, we are both not too convinced. The navigation system (we don't want to use Android Auto or Apple Carplay) is an online system with an included four-year subscription. Not clear what happens after four years. The offline navigation is a more expensive option.

We could not find a parking-spot near the Mazda/Nissan dealer, but may try tomorrow at a different Mazda dealer. Depending on the weather: 20cm snow is forecasted.

[UtwigMU]

Slav your car to better fit with the crowd there.

[VJ]

The main issue could be in Belgium. And those are huge detours... Still, we'll see how it evolves. More and more events are cancelled in Belgium and restrictions are tightened. For sure we will wait till after our third vaccination, which we both should receive in the first half of December. Benefit of going by car is that we do not have to plan if: if the regulations allow for it, we can decide to go the next day.

On the car buying front, we made a testdrive with a VW Golf, and were both very disappointed. I wanted to try a Golf, even though it is in a bit different category. Particularly the poor visibility (you don't get a good feeling about where the car is when you are manoeuvring it) was a downside for both of us. My wife also was rather critical about the engine noise and I really did not like the seat; even though it was VW's top Ergo-active seat, I just could not get comfortable (and getting out was also not that easy: too high side supports - both of us had issue with that). The suspension also felt quite poor, particularly on an uneven road (but nothing close to off-road, just a bit uneven asphalt), where it did not even feel more comfortable or able than our Polo on that same road. Cobblestones must be a disaster. Many reviews comment on bugs in the electronics and the test vehicle was no different: front and side parking sensor were malfunctioning (the salesperson said it just would need an update, but in many user reviews it seems that people wait long for updates that fix malfunctions). Even those electronics aside, it just has too many practical downsides for us, so that one is scratched of our list. I honestly expected it to be better.

Next up probably Mazda...

[UtwigMU]

Replace coil, AFAIK it was like 200 EUR for all coils and all sparkplugs on the Polo. Then go.

Based on last year - the Covid incidence curves are nearly identical in most of Europe (spikes going up that will subside before Christmas), they will go down and governments might ease off before Christmas.
Alternate route is Slovakia -> Orbanland > Slovenia > Italy > France. You might also cross with ferries across Baltics. Or you can go Ukraine, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Italy.
Hungary seems fine, Slovakia doesn't have many restrictions, here and in Italy everything is fine if you have green pass and in Slovenia you can get tested everywhere for 7 EUR or free.

Once in Belgium you can just chill at your parents where you have permanent/part time residence.

[VJ]

Mine just suddenly failed... First one warranted a call to VW assistance, the second one failed just as we were leaving the VW service after replacing the first one and the third one about three years later - luckily we were right near that VW dealer - and that was now about a year ago. There is no telling when the fourth one will go. We did not get a spare one when going to my parents this summer, but breaking down in winter is a tad worse if you have to wait a few hours for a tow truck.

One issue in my plans of going soon to my parents is the further tightening of the restrictions in Germany and Belgium... I may have to wait till they ease a bit.

[UtwigMU]

I had to change ignition coils on Polo. Especially during heavy rain or snow and backroad when I'd go over large puddle the car would then pull intermittently to the point I had to once limp in back safe mode.

[Umfriend]

I would get one.

[VJ]

I'm just wondering if getting an ignition coil... In the last two years, three ignition coils failed. On two occasions I was close to a VW dealer and manage to limp there, but one time we needed the VW-assistance (mobility warranty really works), who said that he could have fixed it right there and then if he would have had the part. With three failed, that leaves one still there... Not such an expensive part to buy and keep as a spare, and if I were to get an OBD tool it would probably be possible to replace it myself... May be something to get if I would do the trip with the Polo (it would be again a 3000 km trip).

[UtwigMU]

Polo is fine, 12-16y old Polo didn't let me down when I was taking 500km trips to Vienna, Prague or Florence. I did have to keep oil can in the trunk though.

[VJ]

I fully trust the Polo to take us there and back: I have a bottle of oil, it has quite new tires and battery. I'm not sure I would trust a used shitbox to the same extent.
Still, if we are considering a car, it would be nice to have it sooner than later...

[UtwigMU]

If urgent just buy used shitbox Octavia or some other VW with either 1.9 or 2.0 TDI for like 2-3k for December trip if your Polo is not up to par. Take it so service prior to purchase and then service important parts.

Check rentals if you just need the Christmas trip. The rental prices should be way down these days and there are places which rent very basic cars very cheaply. Few years ago when my car was in repairs for a long time I managed to find Citroen Saxo for less than 10 EUR / day. I just needed a car to commute 10km for couple of weeks. Was way more economical then buying used very basic car for around 1k and then selling it.

If you can buy new or close to new before December, get what's physically available.

[VJ]

Well, this became much more relevant and urgent... Both my parents tested positive for Covid (I posted it in the Covid thread), even though they are both always careful: masks, disinfection, avoiding crowds...

Now I'm certain I'll go in December, and I intend to go more frequently - as in every 2 months. I'm fed up with not being able to see them: since December 2019, I managed to visit them ONCE. They are not getting any younger (my father is 77) and pandemic makes it two years lost. Of course I would go by car: less infection risk for either side, easier to plan with changing restrictions and no risk of cancelled flights. Then there is the tax Belgium plans on short flights, which would make a one way flight 80 euros more expensive and the social situation (strikes which block access to the airport)...