Buy GTS2 or wait for G800 ??

[tuco]

the question you've got to ask your self is, do you want to spend that kind of money knowing that nvidia will bring out a successor in 6 months time. at least with matrox i know that the product will have enough thought go into the g800 that it won't be suceeded every 6 months. just look at how many cards nvidia have churned out during the life span of the g400, no game so far has pushed my g400max so hard that i,ve thought about upgrading. the one thing i have learned is, i'm going to pre order the g800 as soon as possible, last time i waited 2months with only a 4mb cirruslogic to play with.

[tuco]

the question you've got to ask your self is, do you want to spend that kind of money knowing that nvidia will bring out a successor in 6 months time. at least with matrox i know that the product will have enough thought go into the g800 that it won't be suceeded every 6 months. just look at how many cards nvidia have churned out during the life span of the g400, no game so far has pushed my g400max so hard that i,ve thought about upgrading. the one thing i have learned is, i'm going to pre order the g800 as soon as possible, last time i waited 2months with only a 4mb cirruslogic to play with.

[The PIT]

Whats this with double posts?

[Sensei]

Corwin, in response to the first part, I don't see how having T&L on the Geforce 2 is making your Geforce anymore obsolete. There aren't any games that take advantage of T&L at the moment, but when they do come out, then people with Geforces and Geforce 2s will be in much better shape than those without. I would think that having T&L actually will extend the life of your card. In response to the second part, well, Nvidia, like was mentioned above, has lots of teams working on different things. The Geforce 2 was only supposed to be a spring refresh. The new architecture always comes in the fall. The NV20 will be the new one.

Sensei

[paulcs]

I believe Soldier of Fortune actually takes advantage of T&L. Quake3, I've heard, does to a lesser extent. I think that's it.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[tuco]

apologies for multiple posts, ie5 crashed after pressing submit, rebooted & forgot to check if message had posted. i don't believe it's a silly argument, if i had bought a sdr geoforce only to find ddr versions a few months later quickly followed by 64mb variants then geoforce2(all within 7-8months) i'd be fecked off to say the least.

[Corwin_Brute]

What I said is that the GeForce did look obsolete for the people who bought it. Many people who bought it thought that T&L games would come out very quickly, and that they would have the fastest card.
About T&L on the GeForce and GeForce 2, don't forget DX8 is around the corner, and that the DX7 T&L engines on the GeForces will be about useless for DX8 games (most of things such as higher order surfaces will have to be done in software). Remember the bumpmapping : there are more games using EMBM than games using emboss BM (although emboss was here long before), because EMBM is easier to program and gives better results. I think the same thing will happen with DX7 and DX8 T&L...

BTW, the 3 teams working at NVidia does not mean they have always a ready product up their sleeve. If they did have alpha silicon ready 6 months before the GeForce came out, they could have given some (under NDA) along with the specs to developers, and we would have had many T&L games last Christmas... Don't you think so ?

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Corwin the Brute

[Maniac]

We're all forgetting one thing. The "G800" hasn't even been anounced yet! Anything said about it so far, has been pure speculation.

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Celeron 366@567 2.2V, 128meg generic PC-100 RAM (running at CAS2) Abit BH6, G400 16meg DH@150/200, Western Digital Expert 18gig, Ricoh mp7040A(morphed to mp7060A) Pioneer 6X DVD slot load, Motorola Cable Modem w/DEC ethernet card, Soundblaster Live Value Ver. 2, Viewsonic GT 775

[The PIT]

Yup it's a silly argument.

[Jutai]

Cypro,
in order to answer your question we really need to know what kind of sytem you have and what kind of videocard you are looking for. it looks like you want a "frames per second" screamer and we all know GeForce2 is the winner hands down. Also if you do buy the GeForce now E-Bay later will cut the cost of your next upgrade but like leasing a car you'll always have the "latest and greatest" but you'll always be paying for it now or later. Personally image quality is king and that's why i love Matrox but if i just wanted the fastest i would go NVidia for now.
remember we need to see your system and hear what you want!!
-Chris K.

[Thomaspo]

Me mate justs bought a geforce (1) - £180 its cost him and now voodooo5 geforce 2 etc are all coming out he feels really ****ed off. Ahnyway though had you bought a geforce when they first came out i think you would have been pleased with it. Also nVidia bringing new things into there drivers to extend the life of geforce ie anti-alising nad texture compression (when with epic get ut texture compression woking in D3D)!

My point is if you bought a geforce 2 when it comes out even if nvidia bring out something much better 8months later then you'll still be pleased with your purchase.

Chris Thompson

[Sensei]

Microsoft is working with Nvidia for the T&L portion of DX8. Since Nvidia is the only card manufacturer with a working T&L part, Microsoft can't exactly leave them behind can they? The whole Geforce being slow or incompatible with DX8 is all just rumor and is absolutely untrue.

Sensei

[Cypro]

Jutai,

These are my specs.

PIII-600@600(because of that ****'n P2B-S)
256MB PC100
G400 MAX
SBLIVE Platinum
Illyama 19"

But there are two things I want to know regarding my original question;

a)I know the story that Matrox has the best image quality. But is it really such a difference?

b)Will the differnce in speed between the Geforce2 and the G800 will just as big as between the Geforce1 and the G400?

In my opinion you don't need to have the quickest card around, but I found the difference between the Geforce 1 and G400 too big! And perhaps the difference in image quality to small.
But that doesn't say that I'm not a Matrox fanatic.

[Sensei]

Matrox is known for their great image quality. Whether or not the difference is big enough to worry about is really subjective. The color saturation on Matrox cards and the ultra high res quality is usually better. Nvidia cards are usually the speed king with damn good image quality, but not quite as crisp as Matrox quality. Basically, if you can, try to compare the two side by side and see what you think.

Sensei

[Corwin_Brute]

As Sensei pointed out, the image quality difference depends on subjectivity and on the monitor. In low resolutions (up to 1024), colors will be better on the G400, but not by much. But in higher resolutions, the picture is a lot better and sharper on the G400.

About DX8 and the GeForce/GeForce 2, DX8 T&L programming will probably revolve around higher order surfaces, which the GF/GF2 hardware can't handle. I'm confident the NV20 (GeForce 3 ?) will be able to, but what I'm afraid of is that there won't be much games using the DX7 T&L pipeline (it is often more efficient for the programmer to code his own pipeline).

As for the new pixel shader in the GeForce2, it is visually very impressive, well supported under DX8, but requires special development.

My bet : if you want speed, wait for a few days/week, and buy a DDR GeForce once the prices have fallen a little. If you want visual quality and DX8 full support, wait for the G800^H^H^H^H^H "next chip".

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Corwin the Brute