It's hard being a Matrox fan...

[WMTJ]

I really think Matrox H=has a solid product with todays applications. Not the highest Q3A or UT benches but just playable fps.
It's ok to take a year instead of the expensive 6 months to bring a video product to market. Consider how long it takes just to make a game engine that implements alot of these "new" features the competition has has implemented. We're just getting games patched to take advantage of environment mapped bump mapping! What we might start seeing in the gameing industry because of the speedy increase in developing video technolgy is largely scaleable game engines
that cater to the power hungery and the not so well indowed with power. I have the feeling that mass market DVD games are going to get alot more popular considering the console market's push to be a competitve full multimeda entertainment box! I know it seems a litte inclusive on my part, but I believe many trains of thought shape and form the industry and It's better to be a little broad-minded and patient where spending your hard earned money is concerned!

------------------
http://www.skynary.com/winstonco1
Not all will capitolize on the webs greatest opportunity!Only the few with a vision!

[WMTJ]

I really think Matrox H=has a solid product with todays applications. Not the highest Q3A or UT benches but just playable fps.
It's ok to take a year instead of the expensive 6 months to bring a video product to market. Consider how long it takes just to make a game engine that implements alot of these "new" features the competition has has implemented. We're just getting games patched to take advantage of environment mapped bump mapping! What we might start seeing in the gameing industry because of the speedy increase in developing video technolgy is largely scaleable game engines
that cater to the power hungery and the not so well indowed with power. I have the feeling that mass market DVD games are going to get alot more popular considering the console market's push to be a competitve full multimeda entertainment box! I know it seems a litte inclusive on my part, but I believe many trains of thought shape and form the industry and It's better to be a little broad-minded and patient where spending your hard earned money is concerned!

------------------
http://www.skynary.com/winstonco1
Not all will capitolize on the webs greatest opportunity!Only the few with a vision!

[Narayan]

Then again you could choose to ignore a generation or two of nVidia cards...

It would be easier on the wallet, and the speed diff would be more noticeable, wouldn't you say?

I'd have to agree that you almost always get more VFM with Matrox boards - that was my initial point, I don't think any Matrox user would want to jump ship for a few fps as that would be unpractical. I can recall being let down by a nVidia board as well as a 3dfx board, but a situation as such has not occured while in possesion of a Matrox board.

Oh, and why is it that Americans are ALWAYS beating on their neighbours in the North? Envy, perhaps?

------------------
Currently powered by:
P3 600EB@700, Matrox G400 32MB DH, QDI Advance 9, 128MB PC133 Goldstar

[Mark F]

Michel said:
I get the feeling that Matrox doesn't just improve their last product by putting faster mem and clocking the core higher

I'd settle for that right now!

Mark F.

------------------
OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a DVD...
and burped out a movie

[drzaius]

Narayan:
most likely

[Sarc]

Well, ... you definitly struck a nerve.

I see so many valid points from several different sides and there are always the ones that make you stop and go, huh?

Anyway...

I'll try to make my point quick.
I believe utimatly a person should by what they believe is going to suit them best for how they use their computer. I have been pleased to no end with my G400 MAX and can't wait to get a faster processor and a lot more RAM. [ I hear they scale really well = ] If you like a company, stick with em', if you like the lastest and greatest features, go get em'. Sounds simple, but practice always proves otherwise. Basicly, go with your gut, that is after reading a ton of reviews. Just my HO though.

Lastly, I was reading a interview on-line with some one from Matrox that was important I guess, (cheif executive kind of person), basicly he said that Matrox isn't trying to go for the 6-month cycle, because they believe in the life-span of their product. Hmmm... if it really does scale well this would make sense. Can't wait to find out for my self. (Sorry I don't remember were the interview was, If I come across it I'll come back and post it)

[Sarc]

Ha Ha, I found it! Uh, it was on MURC's main page. Anyway here's the link.
http://www.ga-hardware.com/features.cfm?id=matroxQA

Look for the 5th or 6th paragraph, the question talks specificly about a 6 month cycle. (Which I personaly can't frickin' stand BTW) I'M NOT MADE OF MONEY!!! >;(
Sorry, ugh.

[Narayan]

Well, even if the clever gits @ Matrox decide to go for the 6-month cycle, it doesn't mean the "dedicated Matrox buyer" will follow suit, does it?

Bear in mind that it is ALWAYS the consumer that shapes the market for the companies and not the other way around. With the exception of Microsoft, all other companies in the computing industry that have attempted to forge the market to their own benefit have FAILED (see: Intel, Oracle etc.).

------------------
Currently powered by:
P3 600EB@700, Matrox G400 32MB DH, QDI Advance 9, 128MB PC133 Goldstar

[Buback]

now i'm not sure if my theory is right, but it's posible that if nvidia keeps up their 6 month cycle they are just going to keep hitting hardware limits. it could either be memory speed, power consumption, heat, bus bandwith, etc.

i was specificaly thinking about agp. it's posible that nvidia could use up the bandwith and all the special features of agp4x before the 8x specs are even finilized. What would they do then?

buback

[superfly]

The particular features of any given video card have to direct bearing on the bus limitations of agp 2x/4x/etc...,it's what the game developer chooses to use in terms of eye candy that stresses bus bandwith.

I agree that to see the full performance of any particular video card, bus bandwith speeds need to much higher than even 8x can supply,but the current trend is using effects that are stricly dependant on video fill and texturing rate abilities.

Here's an example,both the geforce and radion sport t.l,each of those chips have probably no problem generating 5 million polys sec with full lighting enabled,the problem lies in getting that huge amount of data to the video card,which isn't going to happen.

here's another one,q3 uses about 10.000 polys per frame at high quality setting,if we aim for 60 fps,that's 600.000 per sec,nowhere near the capabilities of recent cards,even nvidia has stated that with carefull optimization,following nvidia's methods for taking full advantage of T.L and agp 4x,we'd probably see a maximum of 40.000 polys per frame or 2.4 million assuming 60 fps(for smooth gameplay).

Having a four fold increase in poly count is nice and all,but games that sport that many are probably still over a year away.

Coming back to the topic at hand,i generally like the idea of six month product releases for at least three reasons

if the particular video card has just been purchased is alredy extremly fast and can handle any game with fps to spare(above 60 fps)and features that are still not used,then there's no reason to upgrade to anything faster even if it's just six months away from becoming available

The other reason is that it seeds the market with cards that have those extra features,given enough time developers will start to use them,games in general are at least 1 1/2 years behind the best hardware,any when enough of them are sold,developers will go to the trouble to use those features.

the other advantage is driver developement,all companies can test their drivers internally until their faces turn blue,but there's no substitution for having end users report issues with drivers simply because of the large number of possible system configurations and games or other programs used.

[Shandra]

So Superfly,

With your latest point -> You agree in beeing a BetaTester with your new product, to support drivers - with in such case would be ... oh well, the next gen. card of such a manufacture, because suport for the older - your new one - card is no more available ... of no use to you ? And, oh well ... the new card has many Alpha Bugs in it again, 'cause it has new features -> with would be also available by the time you really need 'em with some, lets hope and asume.. matrox card?

But then... we matrox users would be working together again to get all the glitches with other hardware working together with our Mil. Whatsoever done... while the Beta-Testing Folk will be Beta Testing again... and we are just getting it to work -> So that upgrading even in Matrox Time sometimes hurts, because you are not so easily convienced to give up on what you have by then.... (Well, I just keep my old...old Mil.I PCI 4MB -> Just because I hope to see it alive again - either to have a second Monitor on my 2nd PC, or in some - for the old time games - Classic Pentium, or even 486DX??? System....

Ah well, drunken state, complex structure - hope my opinion becomes clear to most of you ;^)

SHAnDRA
dow gon

------------------
CU,
SHAnDRA
dow gon

System: Celeron500, AsusP2B-F (1010 Bios), 192MB
16,8 GB IBM HD, 10,2 GB Maxtor HD, Samsung 604F DVD
SBLive (LiveWare2.1), G400 32MB SH (5.20 certified)
Realtek SNE2000, Diamond SupraExpress 56e (V90 Bios)
Logitech MouseMan+ (Driver 8.4), Microsoft Sidewinder Prec.Pro