What affect does the new ATI card have on Parhelia?

[a13antichrist]

Originally posted by TDB


the rumor is that the fab they are using is jumping straight to 0.09µ.

The rumour also was that P would beat the Ti4600 hands down....

[moreau]

Well, the results so far look pretty gaussian. Or is that a binomial...

At any rate, it seems to the people voting the Parhelia needs a little more get up and go.

I'll decide that for myself as soon as I get mine.

Dr. Moreau

[moreau]

For the record...

I've had really mixed experiences with ATI cards. Even as recent as Radeon LE.

I do have to give them props for their DVD support, though.
And, the 9700 sure looks wild on paper...

[Sinistral]

"Even tho the Parhelia doesn't rely on gamers, it doesn't rely on business either.

- I was saying Matrox doesnt rely soely on gamers only, not the Parhelia (learn to read). The Parhelia is an all around productivity tool. Someone who works, with a computer and enjoys the casual game. I work for a Graphics Firm, although small, my boss is interested and thinking of upgrading the PC machines to all Parhelia's and utilizing its Dual Head-HF and Triple Head.

And ill agree. If you are a Hardcore gamer and care about 3DMark and excess FPS. Then stick with Nvidia and ATI. But Matrox i think shouldnt get their ass in gear, theyre moving in their own direction. ATI and Nvidia can build and continue to build cards that create an unnessecary amount of speed. Games wont be pushing those cards for almost 1-2 Years from now... If that. And by that time, im sure youll be looking at the next generation of cards.

But when comparing price, how bout throwing in an ATI FireGL or Nvidia Quadro, or even a 3D Labs Wildcat? Those cards cost an excess of $800-3000 dollars (and yes, i do use my Parhelia for 2D work and 3D Animation). But they suck at gaming. Yet for a $3000 dollar card, do you expect 5000FPS? Probably not, cause you understand that the Wildcat is the High-End 3D Animation Video Card. With the Parhelia, Matrox doesnt prioitize Gaming in any Advertisment. It was the fans that created the Hype that they couldnt realize. And if you truly beleive in hype, then that just leaves a small impression on your character.

And just to end. At least Matrox is back in the Gaming scene partily. Or would you rather have the Monopalies of ATI and Nvidia charging you $500+ dollars for their high-end gaming solution? The Parhelia is just 1 step in an ongoing process. Youd have to be a fanboy NOT to realize that. -

[moreau]

Another 2 cents...

For what it is worth...


In the flame wars, er, discussions raging, er being held on these forums, one bone of contention I see is whether or not Matrox intended this as a gaming card.

I was personally thouroghly under the impression that Matrox was aiming this card at gamers. If they were not, then I was grossly mistaken.

They certainly weren't aiming it only at gamers. But I thought they were mincing no words that this was a card for gamers too.

[moreau]

For example, they included a little feature called Surround Gaming, which I don't think they were marketing at CAD professionals...

[Sinistral]

- Which i feel that it was possibly the only way to market the feature... Unless you'd rather look at a Stretched Desktop .

And i feel, that the Parhelia IS a game card. But NOT ONLY a gaming card. And as i said before, Matrox seems to doing their own thing. Trying to influence the market in their own little way. As they probably realized that ATI and Nvidia have their fun competing against each other in the 3DMark and Excess FPS Race. -

[Unam]

I for one was certainly under the impression that the P would be a monster, I vividly remember several threads where the discussion related to people having to eat certain parts of clothing.

I am disappointed with the performance levels compared to other cards on the market. I am not disappointed that Matrox has once again brought some interesting technology to the table. What I'm really having a problem with is the price/performance ratio. I will admit to being spoiled in the distant past by having Matrox cards that had the best visual quality and speed. I wanted the P to restore that feeling!

[moreau]

The Parhelia plays todays games at what I consider acceptable framerates (note: I don't wish to discuss here what are acceptable frame rates):

From tom's... Quake 3, 1600x1200/32bit 68.3fps
with 16xFSAA and Aniso, 41.6 @ 1600x1200/32

moreover, check out anand's UT2003 thing a ma jobber:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1647&p=1

with the exception of the really heavy levels at high detail and 16x12, Parhelia again maintains playability, at least as measured by the 30fps bar.

So, it would appear that the defense that Parhila is not a gamers card is actually unwarranted, just as the accusation by the gaming sites that parhelia performs "poorly" is also unwarrented.

Dr. Moreau

[moreau]

Originally posted by Unam
I for one was certainly under the impression that the P would be a monster, I vividly remember several threads where the discussion related to people having to eat certain parts of clothing.

If by monster you mean a GF4 killer, that rumor was actively squashed by people like Haig on this forum.

I am disappointed with the performance levels compared to other cards on the market.

In my opinion, that is what everyone who is disappointed with Parhelia is basing their opinion on. Yes, the relative performance is poor, but the absolute value of all these cards (P, NV, ATI) is excellent...

[moreau]

In fact, the more I reread the Anand UT article, the more excited I am about Parhelia.

Let me explain...

People have criticized Parhelia about not being next gen game proof... But the anand article shows me that the next gen game (UT2003) looks very Parhelia friendly. UT2003 is definitly the game of the future, at least until Doom3, which is apparently over a year from release, and then another 18 months until games based on the engine are released.

Doom3 may prove to be unfriendly to the Parhelia. Time will tell. But it is a bit of a he said she said arguement until the game is actually released and played on all cards...

Dr. Moreau

[Afronaut]

"PC Gaming is a niche market" I have heard this here a few times since 1999 here are the facts.

http://www.idsa.com/2001SalesData.html


"2001 U.S. sales of computer and video games grew 7.9 percent year-on-year to $6.35 billion, the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA), the trade group for the U.S. computer and video game industry, announced today."






Thats nothing compared to this :

"The online gaming market is currently only a small percentage of that industry, though it is growing. The Korean massively multi-player online roleplaying game (MMORPG) Lineage boasts more than 2.5 million subscribers, and Everquest, which is notorious for players who use online auction sites to sell characters and equipment from the game world, is reported to have a virtual economy that makes its setting the 77th largest economy in the world."

"Professor Edward Castronova, from California State University at Fullerton, calculated the numbers and found that Everquest's kingdom, Norrath, has a gross national product per capita of $2,266, making its economy larger than either the Chinese or Indian economy and roughly comparable to Russia's economy."

http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/10693_1107121

I am amazed that Matrox would not want a slice. I think they would never ignore this kind of market.

[Unam]

I agree on the frame rate issues moreau, please note that my post made no mention of FPS for that reason specifically. I disagree with the value statement. $600 CDN + for a card that is not a performance leader in the majority of categories is a premium price.

[Sinistral]

- With those charts. You still can say PC Gaming is still the Niche Market. Console's far outweight the PC Market im guessing 10:1. And possibly 50:1 for the Hardcore Gamers who would buy the top of the line $400 video card. -

[moreau]

Originally posted by Afronaut

I am amazed that Matrox would not want a slice.

... of fictitious vitual money? um...




JK. I think the empirical evidence alone proves that there is money to be had in the gaming market. ATI and nVidia wouldn't kill themselves every six months for no reason. And this has been going on for years...

But, can the money support all out R&D efforts at every vid card manu? After all, 3dfx caved in not long after being king of the hill. Plus there were other companies designing chips years back, now most companies but nvidia...

Dr. Moreau