parhelia voltage mod finished

[Wombat]

MMM: Yeah, there's usually some kind of margin, but I think it's safe to assume that with Parhelia running as slowly as it is, Matrox probably squeezed all the safely could.

Funky: Yes, definitely. Get ALBPM or Oboy in here, but they'll easily tell you that process tweaking is as much an art as it is a science. Also, everybody has their own patents on certain tweaks, or decides to emphasize/optimize certain characteristics.

Nobody's fabs work like AMD's except AMD's. ATI, nVidia, and Matrox do not have their own fabs, they use places like UMC and TSMC, who have their own techniques (which are generally behind AMD & Intel, since these guys are more of the trailblazing nature). And frankly, Intel has what are generally agreed to be the best fabs in the world. Motorola and IBM also run their own fabs, and Samsung, I believe, and a couple other companies.

[Marshmallowman]

hmm, was it a bad move for matox to get UMC to fab for them.

Matrox used their own (small)fab to do the prototype parhelias?, which did clock well.
But when they moved to UMC they were not really up to scratch. You have got to be careful going with the lowest bidder

does that sound right?

A bit more:
AMD has canned its plans to fab some of its parts with UMC, because they realised it was not going to work out. AMD wanted UMC to fab their .13 athlons (non SOI), so they could concentrate on hammer chips, they are now working somthing out with IBM. I wish matrox could partner with some one like IBM, they have some very good technolgy and experience.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Marshmallowman
hmm, was it a bad move for matox to get UMC to fab for them.

Matrox used their own (small)fab to do the prototype parhelias?, which did clock well.
But when they moved to UMC they were not really up to scratch. You have got to be careful going with the lowest bidder

does that sound right?

No, not at all. There's almost no such thing as a "small" fab these days, except for university research labs. With fabs, almost all the costs are upfront. The joke is, "You want chips? $5 million for the first one, $1.50 each after that."

Maybe it was UMC's fault. Maybe it was Matrox's. It could be that UMC didn't really have a good handle on the process, or it may be that they just didn't give very good design rules to Matrox, or it may be that Matrox just didn't implement a very good design, or a bunch of other things. All we know for sure is that Matrox had copious layoffs over the past few years, and that the rumors indicate a long-term pay freeze. Such factors don't look encouraging as far as retaining a top-notch design team goes. <I>That</I> is where the lowest bidder effect comes in, and it appears to be Matrox, not UMC.

How do you know the "prototype" Parhelias clocked well? All we know is that the guys at Epic were excited about them, and that they had friggin' huge heatsinks on them....much like some of the things in this thread, eh?

AMD has canned its plans to fab some of its parts with UMC, because they realised it was not going to work out. AMD wanted UMC to fab their .13 athlons (non SOI), so they could concentrate on hammer chips, they are now working somthing out with IBM. I wish matrox could partner with some one like IBM, they have some very good technolgy and experience. [/B]

Damn NDAs. No comment on IBM fabs, but you can see all the troubles they've had getting the latest Power out.

[Stringy]

Thanks for the info Wombat and nice explaination...





Craig

[borat]

Quote wombat
The joke is, "You want chips? $5 million for the first one, $1.50 each after that."
Unquote

remember having this out with you some time ago and the you saying the thats not true because of yeilds ect, no baiting just clarifying i know that ou know your stuff and respect that.
ps. how do yoe get quotes to format properly on this forum?

[mmp121]

Originally posted by borat
Quote wombat
The joke is, "You want chips? $5 million for the first one, $1.50 each after that."
Unquote

remember having this out with you some time ago and the you saying the thats not true because of yeilds ect, no baiting just clarifying i know that ou know your stuff and respect that.
ps. how do yoe get quotes to format properly on this forum?

By using the nice <img src="images/quote.gif"> button to the far right of the message you want to "quote"

[The PIT]

Originally posted by mmp121
By using the nice <img src="images/quote.gif"> button to the far right of the message you want to "quote"

LOL

[Chrono_Wanderer]

ROFLMAO!

[borat]

Originally posted by Chrono_Wanderer
ROFLMAO!

hehe been wondering how to do that for a year

[K6-III]

Although it seems that Matrox has pulled about all they could out of P by the low clockspeed, by the way you're talking it almost seems you have first or second-hand experience.

Please confirm if this is the case....

[Sasq]

the quote is also done with [ quote] quoted text [ /quote] without the space inside the bracket

[Pace]

Also, it's better not to put line breaks between before and after the tags, vB adds a line break automatically.

e.g.[<!-- spacer to stop vB parsing this tag -->quote]Originally posted by Groundskeeper Wullie:
Aye![<!-- spacer to stop vB parsing this tag -->/quote]What dae ye mean man! The word is 'yes'!

Gives:

Originally posted by Groundskeeper Wullie:
Aye!

What dae ye mean man! The word is 'yes'!

[Wombat]

Also, on other forums, quote="name" works.

I <I>loooove</I> trash!

[Sasq]

Off Topic:

---

Originally posted by Wombat
Also, on other forums, quote="name" works.

I <I>loooove</I> trash!

---

I'll look at turning that on

Dan

[Fender]

come on !
I've been overclocking for years. (began with a 486 - 33@66 lol)
any computer-friendly chip can be modded at least to 5% generally between 10 and 15. why ? because if it wasn't possible to get this margin, poor power supplies, poor electric house systems etc. could hurt it.

if your electric system is really reliable (it is generally, in big towns, sorry for country people) and your power supply is from a good brand with reliable and stable voltages, it's almost no hurt. I know about theoretical things like electronic migration increased by higher voltage and all, but in normal use, this makes your chip last about 5 or 8 years instead of 10 - 15 ! I'm pretty sure your hardware will have changed in 3 years max.

But truly, it must not be too high (only AMD procs can last good with up to 20 or even 40% in some rare cases). I don't know exactly about the parhelia, but UMC or TSMC chips easily can take about 10 or 15% (but only with appropriated cooling)
another true thing : it's not only heat, higher voltage provokes electric migration even at very cool temps, so even with a good cooling, it lowers the life-time of the chip, but in the boundaries I've told upper in this msg.

I'm new to this board because I'm interested in the parhelia for quality reason.

I remarked with a guy on another forum the AGP aperture size trick, which is quite weird and never seen on other graphic cards (about +40% in opengl with the last driver and only with aperture size set to 256MB) so it gets really interesting in the performances too.

Before buying it, I'd like to know by which means you overclock this buddy : special software, bios or hidden features like nvidia ?

are there any people who run their ddr sgram @ 300MHz as they are originally rated (why the hell did they downclock it to 275 ? I know reliability is important for matrox and I'm ok with that, but the memory maker is too, they won't rate chips @300 if it can't stand it.

that was long but that's it

see ya