OK! PCI Express is announced

[[GDI]Raptor]

Originally posted by Wombat
You know, every time you post, you just become a bigger *****le. Kruzin, Greebe, myself, and others here have some VERY reliable sources. We were right about the 550, about Parhelia, about the Px50s. A long tradition of knowing what we're talking about.

Great! Let's hear what's done in software on the PCIe cards, and not in the AGP cards!

I guess the only difference on this core and the old Parhelia8x core is that this uses native PCIe.

[DGhost]

Originally posted by [GDI]Raptor
Great! Let's hear what's done in software on the PCIe cards, and not in the AGP cards!

I guess the only difference on this core and the old Parhelia8x core is that this uses native PCIe.

the question is what is done in software on the Parhelia AGP cards that was supposed to be done in hardware.

[Kurt]

Originally posted by [GDI]Raptor
Great! Let's hear what's done in software on the PCIe cards, and not in the AGP cards!

I guess the only difference on this core and the old Parhelia8x core is that this uses native PCIe.

is it a new core or just the old one with an agp-pci-e transceiver?

[K6-III]

Given the pitiful resources at Matrox-Graphics, it is probably a bridge chip.

That way, they only need to produce one GPU.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by K6-III
Given the pitiful resources at Matrox-Graphics, it is probably a bridge chip.

That way, they only need to produce one GPU.

That's what everybody's doing. Except that I think nVidia has a PCI-E card w/ an AGP bridge. Not sure what ATI's up to.

[DGhost]

ATI has native PCI-e and native AGP cards. If a card is AGP it is AGP. if it is PCI-e, it is PCI-e.

NVidia has native AGP cards with the NV40 series (GeForce 6800 AGP series) and native PCI-e cards with the NV41 (GeForce 6800 PCI-e Native), NV43 (GeForce 6600) and NV45 cards(NV40 w/ bridge chip as part of the same packaging). the NV41 and NV43 are the only true native cores, while the NV45 was a half-step measure they are producing until the NV41 is finally released. So, currently 6600 AGP cards use a bridge chip and 6800 PCI-e cards use an integrated bridge chip.

ATI claimed that staying with Native PCI-e from the beginning was more economical. I think it is starting to be more damaging to them as they suddenly have gaps in their product line that they cannot fill easily whereas NVidia has been able to be very successful with it.

[Marshmallowman]

ATI say ATI are native PCI-ex, nvidia says if you look at pictures of the ATI's PCI-ex dies you will seem the same AGP core with an extra bridge bit tacked on.

I have seen the pic, it does look like an "on-die" bridge chip, I don't know how much difference it really makes though.

FUD and BS all round

[SpiralDragon]

i dont care if Matrox is out of the gaming industry.. but if they are going to focue on the content creation market then they had better have some products that can do OGL for such programs as Combustion, 3DsMAX, MAYA, Softimage realy, realy well and not just be in the midle somewhere.... i would like to see a card from Matrox that offers all these wonderfull fetures that is already does + that extra edge that is needed for creative worksations.... plus i think they should make it triple head PLUS a TV out....especialy for the Audio quys... two monitors are not enugh in a sound studio... three are great... but then a TV out may be needed for casses where dubing is requiered... so here is my list of things i'd like to see from M

1. Compeat with the 3DLabs Wildcat realism cards as far as Hardware realtime acceleration for 3D creation SW goes

2. Triple Head + TV out and some sort of plugin for audio stations like Nuendo, Cubase, Protools to display motion graphics on the TV out port... i dont think that the TV in is in any way a priorty or important... simp;y because with the existance of fierwier and other great products like the Matrox Video ones, its just an added perc that will probably be left unused by most people

[DGhost]

Originally posted by Marshmallowman
ATI say ATI are native PCI-ex, nvidia says if you look at pictures of the ATI's PCI-ex dies you will seem the same AGP core with an extra bridge bit tacked on.

I have seen the pic, it does look like an "on-die" bridge chip, I don't know how much difference it really makes though.

FUD and BS all round

I could have sworn I had heard that but I settled to getting it mistaken for the NV45 instead. I cannot find any pictures to back it up at the moment.

[Reckless]

Originally posted by DGhost
ATI has native PCI-e and native AGP cards. If a card is AGP it is AGP. if it is PCI-e, it is PCI-e.

NVidia has native AGP cards with the NV40 series (GeForce 6800 AGP series) and native PCI-e cards with the NV41 (GeForce 6800 PCI-e Native), NV43 (GeForce 6600) and NV45 cards(NV40 w/ bridge chip as part of the same packaging). the NV41 and NV43 are the only true native cores, while the NV45 was a half-step measure they are producing until the NV41 is finally released. So, currently 6600 AGP cards use a bridge chip and 6800 PCI-e cards use an integrated bridge chip.

I've just ordered myself a GF6600GT AGP card which has the nVidia AGP->PCI-E bridge turned around By all accounts the bridge doesn't harm performance.

IMO, PCI-Express is a complete waste of time and money and is (as per all 'new' technology, only jumped upon by the must have crowd. The AGP bus was typically never saturated as graphics cards manufacturers simply kept up with games requirements and added ever more RAM to the video card. Games 'could' access RAM through AGP but didn't do it in a "real-time" way so that the speed really mattered. The speed of a bus transfer is a long long way off of the 2ns (or so) speed of real RAM.

Anyways, I don't feel obliged to care about PCI-E for a year or two. I'll only care then 'cause I'll *need* to go with as it will have replaced AGP all together!

As for any complaints about Kruzin's data... if you've been around here for long enough you'd know that the posts typically turn out fairly accurate

[leech]

My question is this.... does this mean that Matrox and ATI are really the only ones who make a card that comes with a Component output for HDTV? Nvidia's newest drivers say they support HDTV, but do any of the VGA or DVI to HDTV converters actually work with the nv4x?

Leech

[SaTaN^666]

actually I was kind of curious about that ^^. I hope nvidia can do hdtv, would be a very good option. Id like to try HDTV for myself... but Im not going to buy myself the new P for it. Im gonna research abit on nvidia and their ideas for HDTV... though I am almost certain they will do it. after all what one company makes... all the others will follow.

[Umfriend]

Indeed, like asscasting.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Reckless
IMO, PCI-Express is a complete waste of time and money and is (as per all 'new' technology, only jumped upon by the must have crowd. The AGP bus was typically never saturated as graphics cards manufacturers simply kept up with games requirements and added ever more RAM to the video card. Games 'could' access RAM through AGP but didn't do it in a "real-time" way so that the speed really mattered. The speed of a bus transfer is a long long way off of the 2ns (or so) speed of real RAM.

This PCI-E rant sounds almost exactly like Tom's AGP rant circa 1997.

[spadnos]

Originally posted by Wombat
This PCI-E rant sounds almost exactly like Tom's AGP rant circa 1997.

Well - it makes sense (to me at least).

The on-board RAM runs at 333-500 MHz, possibly more. That's a 128-256 bit wide bus as well, so these cards are getting exclusive access (barring the actual CRTC in the chip) to 5GB/s to 15 GB/s or more. Anything that accesses main memory will compete with the CPU(s) for it, slowing down other processing. Also, the transfer of data across the PCI-Ex bus is slower - even 16 lanes equates to only (should be "only", since it's still wicked fast) 3.2 GB/sec.

I guess it was a valid rant then, just like now.

- Steve