Today is a sad day...

[motub]

It's the Moderator's job to be "between a rock and a hard place", in point of fact.

This might be a little harder place than usual, but that's The 'Box for you.

Any personal issues or opinions on my part are not relevant to my job as Mod of The 'Box, and *cough*at the moment*cough*, no one has crossed any of the lines that would justify me closing the thread.

.........*cough*

.........*cough*

.....errr, nothing more to say, you all know the rules, and HollyBerri has nearly broken the lock on the basement door ...

Gotta run.

I'll be watching, though, to no one's surprise .

-----------------------------
Holly

[Jord]

Someone really smokes too much... look at all the coughing

[KvHagedorn]

Sure that's not second hand smoke, Jord?

------------------
Kind Regards,

KvH

[merchant2112]

the only problem with the press, (tv, and print.) is that it has no real checks they can print what ever they want about what ever they want with very little to fear in reprisals. all to often the following is true "tell a lie loud enough and often enough and soon it becomes the truth."

if we really want to stop violence, hate crimes, and all the rest that goses with it we should make the media who is really responsable for spreading it and glorifying it and sesatinalizeing it, responsable for its actions. (either monitarly and or leagaly.) freedom of speach is one thing insiteing riots and racial clashes is another.

do you really think riots would break out across the contry if the news did not make such a big issuee of how wrong the verdict in the king trial was. or if they has shown the entire video instead of the clips we saw.

look what happened to the white trucker who got his head bashed in with a brick, we did not riot and burn down our own neiborhoods over bad legal ruleings. (hell buy the time the press was done with it the trucker deserved what he got.)

[HollyBerri]

What's really "funny" is watching the media try to create a tempest where one doesn't exist...

You all probably remember the "Million Youth March" (not the "Million Man March", this was a youth march inspired by the previous adult march) held a couple of years ago in NYC; it was big news because some hateful Black Nationalist guy similar to Louis Farakhan was the organizer and keynote speaker.

The city responded by allowing the march, but scheduling it for a very limited area, and a specified duration.

So the day comes (a Saturday), and I turn on NY1 (a cable station carrying only NYC news), figuring that they'll have the "best" coverage. It's about 10 minutes before the scheduled end time. Whatever-his-name-is is making his speech and it soon becomes clear that he intends to make a "statement" by not ending at the scheduled time.

Shortly thereafter, the police move in and remove him from the stage, then Sanitation starts cleaning up as the people are herded out of the area via marked routes.

At the first sign of the police, the NY1 crew fled to several blocks away to continue coverage of the "near riot". Their coverage went on for a couple of hours, involving intrerviews with exiting marchers, endless repetitions of a short segment of film, and lots of "frightened" commentary by the on-scene "reporters".

What happened, really?

Errr... the police moved on the stage, a couple of Nationalist's on-stage guards tried to block them, a bottle was thrown from an overlooking rooftop, and a couple of the police barricades (the metal ones) were also thrown. No one was hurt but for some minor injuries, there were probably a couple of arrests, obviously, and the whole thing was over in less than 3 minutes.

I've lived in NYC for 37 years.

Believe me, this falls well within the category of "Nothing Happened".

I found the whole incident, watching NY1 trying to incite God-knows-what (higher ratings, most likely), outrageous, hysterically funny, annoying and horrifying all at once...

But you tell me, what are we to do, with so many people on the planet, and so little ability for us to know what's going on in our world. In the past, you didn't need to know, as you were unlikely to be affected by things going on outside your little town/village/whatever. That's no longer the case.

Now, in order to conduct your daily life, you have to know a lot more than you might want to, or be able to... about technology, about psychology, about other cultures.

I'm not surprised that people are reacting with fear and anger... nor that those who make money off of those feelings take advantage of us.

After all, in a world gone mad, at least money means something, right?

------------------------------
Holly

[DentyCracker]

All I can say is that here at home I don't have to worry about anyone spitting at me and calling me nigger, so I'll live here. I did not expect to react as viscerally as I did, but it made me aware of my limitations. I do not dislike white people, just feel more comfortable amongst people who look like me. Why so combative Joel I was not trying to force my views on anyone. In fact I said that it should be put to a vote by the states didn't I, sheesh.

[Joel]

"I do not dislike white people, just feel more comfortable amongst people who look like me."

I feel basically the same way but I am called a racist for it.

Joel

[HollyBerri]

I feel basically the same way but I am called a racist for it.

Yes, all right... but by who?

Obviously by people as ignorant and fearful as those who you disavow from your own culture (such as the Klan, et. al)

Do you think that I would hear anything different from such people if I were to walk down a NYC street holding hands with Jorden?

Well, all right, it would be different, I would be called a "traitor to my race", rather than a racist...

Do you think that the more daring of the liberal sect would not condemn DentyCracker for "segregating" himself within his own commumity?

Wake up, Joel... ignorant people behave like ignorant people, no matter their race or creed (there's that word again ) or sexual orientation or national origin or sex.

And there's a lot of ignorant people out there, many of whom are in control of our fates.

If you get surprised, angry or alarmed by that fact every time you run into it, you'll never get anything done in your life, frankly, and the stress is sure to kill you early one way or the other.

People are going to do exactly as they are going to do.... trying to change them is not a winning proposition.

For you, or for them.

But it comes down to what's important to you... "my" people spend a lot of time trying to change the dominant culture too, and rejecting those members who find another way to make successes of their lives. You see how well that strategy works for us as a group....

Think about it.

-----------------------------
Holly



[This message has been edited by HollyBerri (edited 10 July 2000).]

[Joel]

"Yes, all right... but by who?"

Let's just say that I have never been called a racist by a KKK member.

"Obviously by people as ignorant and fearful as those who you disavow from your own culture (such as the Klan, et. al)"

That is why we as the intellects have to do everything we can to educate the ignorant so that groups like the KKK and the NAACP don't take advantage of their fears.

As for the news media. Well that won't change until they learn again that they are there to report the news not make it.

Joel

[Joel]

Ignorance can show up in every aspect of life. This quote was taken from a speech that George Bush made before the NAACP.

""For my party, there's no escaping the reality that the party of Lincoln has not always carried the mantle of Lincoln," said Bush."

Does he not know that Lincoln was a slave owning racist pig. That not only did he participate in the drawing up of an amendment that would have protected slavery had it passed but actually took part in trying to find ways to transports blacks back to their country after the war.

"Few authors and commentators on the war have dared
present one basic fact that overthrows the myth of Yankee
beneficence toward the slaves. On 2 March 1861, the 36th
U. S. Congress (minus, of course, the seven seceded states
of the Deep South) passed by a two-thirds majority a
proposed amendment to the Constitution. Had it been ratified by the
requisite number of states before the war intervened and
signed by President Lincoln (who looked favourably on it as
a way to lure the Southern states back into the Union), the
proposed 13th Amendment would have prohibited the U. S.
government from ever abolishing or interfering with slavery
in any state. The proposed 13th Amendment reads: "No
amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will
authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or
interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions
there of, including that of persons held to labor or service by
the laws of said State." Note well that this amendment was
designed to be unrepealable (i.e. "No amendment shall be
made . . . .")"

OR

"Contrary to the re-written history of the modern era, the Civil War was not fought over slavery, as the following quotes of Abraham Lincoln point out: "I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office...." 9/15/1858 campaign speech "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery...." 3/4/1861 First Inaugural Address "I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District [of Columbia]...." 3/24/1862 letter to Horace Greeley "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it...." 8/22/1862 letter to Horace Greeley, New York Tribune editor"

Joel

[cjolley]

The Civil War was fought over economics.
The economics of slavery.
How Lincoln felt or did not feel about "coloured" people has nothing to do with it.
If you prefer being around people of your own color, you are racist by simple definition.
And, you are missing out on some great experiences.
Widen your cultural horizons. You'll be glad you did.
chuck

[Joel]

And you should practice what you preach and do alittle research into fact instead of trying to trample under foot my heritage.

"If you prefer being around people of your own color, you are racist by simple definition."

So by your definition DentyCracker is also a racist.

See Holly even someone on this forum has called me a racist because of my statement.

Joel

<IMG SRC="http://members.home.net/gilchrist.joel/3rdcsafl.gif" BORDER="0"></A>

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 11 July 2000).]

[cjolley]

Of course he is Joel, in fact that's who I was talking about.
A great American once said "Words have meaning."
I added the word simple to my statement hoping that my meaning would not be misinterpreted as a put-down.
I suppose that, to me, it is a mild put-down. But I always go under the assumption that people are doing the best they know how. So, I do not mean it as badly as you took it.
The simple fact is that if you are focused on race, you are a racist.
The fact that people use the words "white" and "black" for human skin color is a sighn of how pervasive racism is in our culture.
No human has truly black or white skin. This usage is a polarizing artifice of a culture so awash in racisim that most of it's members can't even see it any more unless it is taken to a far extreem.
chuck

PS I told you not to get me started on "white" and "black".

[KvHagedorn]

If you prefer being around people of your own color, you are racist by simple definition.

Simple definitions are for simple minds.

It seems the term "racist" has taken on more infamy than that of "murderer" in our society. Again, who has done this? The media. By incessant repetition. I don't scorn Denty or Joel for their choices. That is not my place. They simply want to preserve what has been handed down to them. It has nothing to do with skin color, which is again an oversimplification which many have bought into. To respect one's parents and grandparents and to pass on intact to one's children all that one holds dear is a sacred and noble thing. And very human. Only someone who has been brainwashed by the tyranny of the liberal media could twist this into something evil.

If you wish to throw around monikers, Chuck, you should pick one that has not been tainted with emotion. "Racist" has become as offensive a thing to call someone as "nigger". At least I take great offense when someone calls me this, because they are by their inferrence calling me stupid when they themselves haven't the depth or will to think beyond what drivel the media has pounded into their heads.

The media scorns culture as they scorn all things not defined by them. They are so drunk with power that they believe they can redefine what is culture with lies and half-lies. Once something sacred is destroyed, it is destroyed forever. This is why I so despise the media and the liberal mindset. They presume to "educate" and define that which is "politically correct", and redefine much of what we love as being evil. I remember a TV commercial for Time magazine. A fakely compassionate voice says "Time helps you understand the events of your world" What absolute gall! To condescendingly tell us that we need them to teach us how to think!

The media has brought the Orwellian nightmare to life in so many ways it is truly frightening. I loathe the prospect of living in a such a world with no soul. It is my humble opinion that we should strive to hold on to our idioms and cultures. That's what makes us human; and however flawed we might be in our humanity, it remains our humanity that gives us the strength and conscience to, in the end, do right by one another.

------------------
Kind Regards,

KvH

[merchant2112]

hehe hey holly guess why we have so many ignorant people.

Because the government wants us this way! (This has been a not so private rant of mine for years. it is one of the reasons why our educational system turns out graduates who cant even read and write and those who can do so at a greatly reduced level (en mass) now why would our beloved government want a public who is mostly in the dark. so that the "people" become compliant. we don’t think for our selves any more we see a point of view on the TV or read about it in the news paper (if we can) and believe it with out question.

Americans no longer find things out for them selves, when was the last time, you went to a library? Never mind read a book.

Someone above said the civil war was about economics "the economics of slavery" go read a textbook written earlier than the last ten years. Slavery was only a small part of it. The south was already phasing slavery out of the plantation system. The civil war came about because the south plantation system was becoming too powerful both monetarily and politically. The north knew that its slave trading days were coming to an end and that if given time the south who was already begining to switch its labor practices (yes slowly) would have become even more powerful. Sanctions and taxes and tariffs were levee against southern goods and services to force the plantation owners to give up there labor forces (slaves) BEFORE there was a replacement labor force in place (thereby crippling the plantation system. instead of this happening the plantation owners used their extensive political power over the southern states to leave the union. and of coarse the north could not let this happen. (Loss of very much needed cotton, tobacco, food crops, and other luxury goods produced were not going to be lost.)


Now I could be full of crap but you won't know unless you get off your but and go find out for your self. Instead of believing what you see on the big misinformation box called the TV / and or news media. Or of course our grate education system that no longer teaches anything but how to get a diploma with out doing anything.

all of the above is directed at everyone.

-------------
we use to be a nation of free men and women (after we starrted leting women vote that is) now we are a nation of sheep who do what we are told and thinkn want we are told with out question. "thinking is a crime"


[This message has been edited by merchant2112 (edited 11 July 2000).]