And another War ....

[omegaRED]

Does anybody know what`s happening here in Macedonia. The most of u probably dont give a s**t, but i do. You see, after the NATO attack on Yugoslavia, which was celebrated all over the world, the Albanians are starting problems here in Macedonia too. And there isn`t any Ethnic Clensing ( i think that`s the term it was used during the Attacks ) going on here. In fact, in the last month no Soldiers or Policemen entered the village where the Terrorists are.
And now, NATO says that the Government must negotiate with the Terrorists, and that we shouldnt use force, although 3 Soldiers were killed yesterday.
So, for any Americans or any others who supported the NATO bombings, thank you very much for helping them kill us.


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Seth, are you ok ?
I`m peachy, Kate. The world is my oyster.

[dZeus]

no joke... I think those Albanese rebels are just as bad as the Serb's ethnic clensing.

[This message has been edited by dZeus (edited 05 March 2001).]

[windigo]

maybe your police force should roust them before NATO gives them a foot hold its your country and you should'nt tolerate terrorists no matter what anybody says.
the terrorists are probably terrorizing the people there who just want a safe place and using them as shields. hope things get better

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[Gurm]

And soon, the "terrorists" will claim that they are "reclaiming their homeland", and that they occupied it before you did. They'll call themselves the "Macedonglian Liberation Organization" and appoint a cold-blooded, crazed killer as "president". Then they'll demand that you "give back" half of your country to them. When you say "ok", because NATO wanted you to, they will then demand the REST of your country.

Oh, wait. That's the so-called "Palestinians". Oopsie.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[omegaRED]

Exactly. I`m glad that in the West there are people who look realistically at things.

Just so everyone knows, i`m not defending the Serbs, they did terrible things to them, but as my Aunt in Germany said, a month or so ago, there was a TV show, showing how the Albanian ists in Kosovo took the bodies of some of their soldiers, then took their Uniforms and put Civilian clothes on them, making it look like the Serbs shot civilians.

There are a lot of Albanians living here, some 20% of the whole populace, but not all of them support the ists.

In the last few years they`re asking not to be treated as a minority, just because they make 20% of the populace. BTW, those 20% came here in the last 15-20 years. Before, there were some 10%. Imagine the Chinese or the Portoricans demanding that they deserve 1/10 of the USA because there are so many of them there.

Gurm, that`s EXACTLY what they say. Even if there werent any Albanians in Macedonia before us. And they`ll probably demand the western half, which borders with Albania & Kosovo.

All in all, things look very bleak. The point is, Macedonia is actually just a young Country, we are independent since 1991, we dont have a well-equipped army nor the money to build one. So we must ask NATO to lend us a hand, but lately, the Bulgarian and the Greek Prime Minister promised they would help us with manpower & equipment, so thats a good thing.

Our President demanded that a "Tampon Zone" ( i cant think of the English term ) be formed in Kosovo, which would be controlled by NATO troops. But NATO says they dont have the money to do this !!! And they had the 6 billion $ to spend on Ammo during the ings on Yugoslavia.

The point is we cant afford to lose the support NATO gives us. But if they blackmail us to be "diplomatical" and that we dont use force, there`s only so much we can take.

So i guess, sooner or later, we`ll have to take matters into our own hands.

Hope this ends quickly and without any more bloodshed.



[This message has been edited by omegaRED (edited 05 March 2001).]

[FrankDC]

I've been thinking about this for a half-hour now and I still have no clue what a Tampon Zone could be...

[windigo]

Grum: I believe your wrong about the Palestinians they should have their land back just because Jewish soldiers plow the houses over and build Jewish settlments over the rubble doesnt make it kosher
"Tampon Zone" hehehe i think he might mean buffer zone or demilitarized zone

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[omegaRED]

"Tampon Zone" hehehe i think he might mean buffer zone or demilitarized zone

Thats exactly what i mean, thanks for the correction windigo.



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Seth, are you ok ?
I`m peachy, Kate. The world is my oyster.

[Gurm]

Windigo,

Don't start an argument with an angry Jew about Israel, ok?

Let's just say that it is a well established historical FACT that Israel was the sovereign property of the Jews 4,000 years ago. The arabs didn't go there until AFTER the fall of the Roman empire, which was substantially less than 2,000 years ago (1500-ish, actually).

But that's not the point. The point is that a small group of people should in no way be allowed to come into ANY sovereign nation (Israel, Macedonia, America, France, ANY nation) and DEMAND part of that nation.

It just isn't right. If we let it happen in Israel or in Macedonia, the precedent is set for it to happen in America, or England, or ANYWHERE.

Do you see why this is bad?

Now, it's especially bad when there is as much bloodshed as there has been in Israel, or as there is ramping up to be in Macedonia. It's bad.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[omegaRED]

Right. I dont know the history of Israel, but Gurm was absolutely right about the sovereignity of our Countries. It`s very likely this could happen anywhere in the World if it happens here or in Israel. It would be a very dangerous precedent.

Don`t forget, this is happening because NATO supported the Rebels in the first place, so they are probably thinking, since they got away with it in Kosovo, they`ve got a good chance of succeeding in Macedonia too.

If u remember, the borders of any countries werent changed since WW2. Except the break-up of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, but that`s a different story alltogether. You know what changing borders leads to, dont you? Another WORLD WAR! Because everyone will think they can get away with it. That`s how WW2 started.

And sorry, i really can`t understand the Palestinians too. Do they feel threatened now that Israel is forming a Government ( or allready has ) for "National Salvation" ( and again, this is a translation from the Macedonian term, dont get mad everybody, i`m sure u know what i mean ). It`s ridiculous. If there werent any PLO attacks, there would be no real need to form such a Government, now would it?

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Seth, are you ok ?
I`m peachy, Kate. The world is my oyster.

[Joel]

I think the real problem is that we as nations have forgotten some of the things that most of us learned during early childhood and that is to play nice and share.

Joel

[bongo]

I just think that the "Yugoslavs" should have worked out things and stuck together as a country. Croats/Serbs/Montengrins/Vojvodinans/Bosnians of all religions....you get my point.

They share a similar language and history (every slav got his ass kicked by the Turks for 500 yrs so they can bond over that collective misery during the tribal fires). Economically most if not all former Yugoslavian partners are sucking big time economically with pathetic currencies.

Simply put Slavs are stronger as a team. Individually they will remain a petty backward people. This is why countries like the US and Canada are great (comparatively speaking); they overcame seemingly impossible philosophical differences (ie., slavery) and formed a powerful collective nation. And I say this choking on my own words because I am truly not a fan either country. But how can you argue with their success (economically and militarily).

So if the Albanian terrorists in Kosovo are frightening you my suggestion is this: All the former Yugoslav republics should get together and tie all forces (economy/military/etc) and kick ass. The West would not say a peep if a unified Yugoland would enact an anti-terrorist action in Kosovo. Otherwise the West will always do whatever political agenda suits them (ie, sex addict Clinton needs a distraction from impeachment hearings) and they will bully around any stray nation.

As we all know America only attacks (since Vietnam kicked US ass) countries that it knows it can crush in a couple of weeks. The Bully Doctrine. The US would never touch China no matter how many students it kills or monks it exterminates in Tibet.

So my Crno Gorin friend, think about Federation not isolation. Independence only works if you are huge (China) or rich (Kuwait). None of the former Eastern european satellite come even close to meeting that simple criteria; unless you count arrogance and over blown self importance.

best of luck, but unless you open your minds to federation the slavic tribes will be herding sheep in perpetuity.

bongo

[Joel]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">As we all know America only attacks (since Vietnam kicked US ass) countries that it knows it can crush in a couple of weeks.</font>

At least someone finally added a sense of humor to this thread.

Joel

And like Ant has said before, let's keep this civil and avoid the insults or it might just get the boot.

[windigo]

k i wont go any farther than to say Im native american, ojibway tribe, sturgeon clan(if ya wanna know) and my history goes back 45000 years and so all you land robbers pick up and shove off to the "old country"

but to be serious I think there has to be a way to reconcile the past so each of us can look upon one another as equals and live in peace
the only reason i disagreed with you was because I see both sides in Isreal and Palestine provoking each other under the guise of religion and their past as a reason
to continue the bloodletting.Hopefully this wont happen in Macedonia, like its gonna/is happening in Kosovo.

plus Im Canadian and wasnt impressed when an Isreali hit squad fouled an assassination attempt on a Hamas leader while under the guise of Canadian passports(just how did they get those? and who wants to be Canadian that badly? plus thats very rude....stealing shame on you

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MSI K7TPro2 Duron 750@900
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Pioneer SCSI 16xDVD

[omegaRED]

First of all, i`m not a "Crno Gorin", i`m a Macedonian. But no insult taken.

Well, Yugoslavia ( the Former Yugoslavia ), wasnt such a bad thing after all. I think Miloshevic is to one to blame it doesnt exist anymore. Or the Americans

Sure, Macedonia wasnt a independent Country then, but things arent really GREAT now that it is. Oh well ...

I guess a Federation would be the way to go, but on the other hand, you can be pretty sure that no Serb and Croat would want to live in the same Country/Federation, after they massacred each others in the Balkan Wars. Nor would the Bosnians or Slovenians. In fact, Macedonia and Montenegro are the only two Republics who werent engaged in any of the Balkan Wars. So, i guess the majority of our people would have nothing against a Federation of some sort, say with Serbia and/or Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia. But realistically speaking, THERE`S NO WAY of rebuilding the former Yugoslavia.

There are only theoretical chances of a federation with, say Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece. But only theoretical. Coz Bulgaria supported NATO in the attacks on Serbia, and even if that`s forgotten, there`s still the issue between Macedonia and Bulgaria, and Macedonia and Greece.

Bulgaria : Until lately, they denied that Macedonians even existed, claiming we were all Bulgarians ... plus the territory they occupied ( the eastern parts of Macedonia, called "Pirin" ) after WW1. Now, we arent holding a grudge or something, but we dont actually trust them that much ...

Greece : They dont deny the existance of Macedonians, they have a problem with our name, hence the name FYROM. They too "took" a part of Macedonia, the southern called "Egej" ( pronounced "Aegei", i think ). Now, that part was 80% Macedonians, in fact my Grandparents are born there, and duringg the Civil war in Greece they came here. My Grandfather died without visiting his home there, because they didnt allow anyone who was born there to enter Greece until lately. So i guess that they are ( were ) afraid that the people who were born there would ask their land back, which could then lead to say Autonomy, or Independence, and they didnt want that to happen. It`s really silly, all my Grandfather wanted to do before he died was visit his home there. No land, no money, nothing ...

Things are looking better lately, the Greek are investing heavily into Macedonia, so maybe it will all be solved soon ...

But realisticaly speaking, i dont now ... i just hope that there wont be a war in Macedonia, and i can keep posting in these Forums

Joel, i think i`m not insulting anyone, nor was my intention to do so. I just wanted to hear some oppinions on this matter.


[This message has been edited by omegaRED (edited 06 March 2001).]