Their they go to there lair

[cjolley]

GURM,
Your teacher wasn't kidding.
eg: (and please forgive the poor German spelling (it's been 30 years))
"small matchbox" =
streischholtzsactlschen -> strike wood container + ling (diminutive)
(Thanks for the spelling Schorsch.)


chuck


[This message has been edited by cjolley (edited 22 May 2001).]

[HollyBerri]

No, KvH, I didn't know about the flash card, but I do know that if I was presented a flash card that had such a word misspelled, I would[list=1][*] know the word was misspelled;[*] not go ahead and re-misspell the word, when I'm the Vice-President of the bloody country![/list=a]Surely a seasoned politician could find a diplomatic way of pointing out the error.

I never actually met Ms. Shields, but I was still at the school when she came to inspect the campus during the April Hosting week before she began her attendance, and I saw her at a (campus-wide) party the following spring. She did, from all reports (school reportage, news reportage and eyewitness accounts) appear to be that stupid, plus or minus the youth factor.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Most people are not in a position to be Brooke Shields or a Columbian druglord (not that they would want to be if their priorities were straight), so if they want a decent job in the real world, they really ought to pay some attention to their education. </font>

And just who would want "a real job in the real world," when that requires years of very boring study, which may not in fact get you much of a job (I knew people who graduated from Princeton who wound up driving taxis), when you could be a rich and powerful anything.

I'd be the last one to say that being stupid is bad. But America is the land of opportunity, where the streets are paved with gold and all that. That whole "work/study real hard and make something of yourself" thing seems to have gone out with the pioneers and Booker T. Washington. Now we're stuck with "something to fall back on" and "There's always work at the Post Office/with the Government".

It's not much of an incentive to keep your nose to the grindstone.

------------------------------
Holly



[This message has been edited by HollyBerri (edited 19 May 2001).]

[KvHagedorn]

cbman, I wish most teachers were not so trite and had the guts to tell you why, in Canada, you must learn French. (I'm sure it's because many Canadians speak French and the politicians made this rule.)

Anyhow, German does have a few words like that.. fingerhut, (finger hat) means "thimble," sternwarte, (star view) means "observatory", etc. But if you think about it, every word has an origin. I happen to think it less pretentious to create a word from one's own language than to dig up some root from the Latin or ancient Greek to serve. This goes waaay back to Norman times, where the Norman French made it a mark of their rank that they used Latin-rooted words rather than the Germanic vernacular. "We eat pork.. they eat swine flesh" (when the vernacular was actually more particular about this being the meat than it being the animal.)

[cbman]

I know why we have to speak french... it's because 75% of our Prime Ministers are of French Origin (For those that misunderstand.. that was a joke on my part)

At the time I didn't know why... but that matters little. What matters more was that she was a poor teacher and I can barely conjugate the french verbs let alone pick out their meaning.

Even after 5 years of french class I still can't say :

Je nais pas parle francias au jourduis

Inside joke that one is... (French exchange women)

or to be proper

That one is an inside joke, having to do with an occasion where the school had some french exchange students.

And I bet that even that explination contains errors. Possibly a comma splice and a lack of concise structuring.

Did I say that right?

PS... I can't spell frech either

[EDIT] This Post Has Been Picked Over By The First Tier Grammer Police [/EDIT]

[EDIT] This Post Has Been Picked Over By The Second Tier Grammer Police Constable [/EDIT]

[EDIT] T][i§ P0st Ha§ Been Hacked |8y ¶][e l33t [/EDIT]

[This message has been edited by cbman (edited 19 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by cbman (edited 19 May 2001).]

[Jorden]

Chuck, I won't even go into German So there

KvH: One little thingy I have to get off of my chest: "Parents and teachers used to have some say in bringing kids back to reality, but sadly, they wuss out now and don't do their jobs.

I have worked at an Elementary School, groups 1 to 8, as a sub-janitor. I have seen parents coming in and heard them ask why the present day teachers don't spank the kids (like they used to in their school days), if they are late, or if homework isn't done !!

I think, as do many teachers, that even in Holland, lots of parents think the school will raise and educate their children!!
Why do you want children? To raise and possibly educate them in your own believes, or do you want teachers to do that for you?

I just hope Holly and I can teach our future kid(s) a world of wisdom from 2 sides of the ocean, all by ourselves, without a teacher telling us different. Or we must make a big mistake somewhere, so we can learn from that teacher !!

I don't know where my original topic has gone to, but I hope Chuck will bring it back on its original path

Jord.

[Jorden]

Charles,
My last bit of French I was taught and spoke, was end of first class Mavo (Junior College, or whatever you might call it).

That was 1981... now 20 years on I can still enhance your "Je nais pas parle francias au jourduis" to "Je ne parle pas Français aujourd'hui"

Although I must say I had to use a Babelfish to translate 'today'

Jord.

[This message has been edited by Jorden (edited 19 May 2001).]

[cjolley]

I used to be a teacher & I can tell you what's going on in the US.
1, Many parents want all the rights & no responsibility for having kids.
2, Many parents expect their children to be socialised in school, but not educated. It should be the reverse.
3, Many parents and their children think learning should not involve work.
4, If there is a conflict between a teacher & a child, school administrators will take the side the parents want regardless of the facts. If the parents are on the side of the teacher, fine. If not, the administrators will take the side of the child.
5, Much too much crap other than school goes on in school now. For example, athletic coaches are paid way more than most teachers in a given school. Several times I had to cancel tests because the baseball coach decided that the team needed more practice during school hours before a game.
6, And further more....
Oh well, I can get wound up and rant about that stuff for hours
chuck

Edit:
/*+ I can take a hint Joel. */
(Anyone get the joke?)




[This message has been edited by cjolley (edited 19 May 2001).]

[KvHagedorn]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">No, KvH, I didn't know about the flash card, but I do know that if I was presented a flash card that had such a word misspelled, I would[list=1][*] know the word was misspelled;[*] not go ahead and re-misspell the word, when I'm the Vice-President of the bloody country![/list=a]</font>

Yes, but you are far more intelligent than Dan Quale, Holly. I did agree that whoever might have planted that card really got him there. Why did someone of such dubious intellect become Vice President, anyhow? Why does Mike Tyson make $30,000,000 for 10 minutes of beating the living crap out of someone? Why are those Princeton graduates driving cabs while some of the dumbest people in the world are still teaching high school? (The basketball coach who was my 9th grade history teacher insisted that it was Apollo TWO (II) and not Apollo 11.. he's still there all these years later.) That's what I'm saying.. things are very screwed up.

By the way, interestingly enough, Brooke Shields was on my campus (University of Chicago) while I was there, too. She was filming "Endless Love"(!)

[HollyBerri]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jorden:
I just hope Holly and I can teach our future kid(s) a world of wisdom from 2 sides of the ocean, all by ourselves, without a teacher telling us different.</font>

This is a lovely sentiment in theory, dearest, but I must say that, in practice, things are not so clear.

My only published writing job was for a magazine, and I was assigned to cover a protest by parents who did not want certain books related to ---guess what?--- sex education taught in their school district. The parents I interviewed for quotes all said basically that they wanted control over that aspect of their children's education, and at what age they found out about these things.

That sounds very nice, too, but the rate of teen pregnancy, and the age of teen pregnancy suggests that parents are not in fact responsibly transmitting the information at all.

Similarly, I remember the huge controversy over whether doctors should be forced to contact the parents of a minor who requested birth-control treatment. The problem was that if the minor had a good relationship with the parents, they would already know, thus the minor would probably avoid treatment if s/he knew that the doctor would "tell on them".

So I question whether it's a good idea to dispute the wisdom of an expert in their field, and interfere with their ability to perform their lifework.

I hope we can work together with the teachers to have intelligent and well-adjusted children, myself.



-----------------------
Holly

[cbman]

To bad having a public funded education system disallows you to pick the teacher of differing subjects.

Example :

Mr (Dr but he hated that). Greig - Math Teacher, PhD BS etc. etc., Teaching high school math... he looked like a hippy.. he loved Frank Zappa... and he could teach a rock calculus and advanced trig.

Mr. Macfe - Computer Teacher, Credential's Unknown, Smelt of Booze. Had a flask in his desk. Incoherant, and the list goes on.

Dr. Jackson - PhD Chemistry and Master in Physics, Taught General and Advanced Physics only as the school hired a woman for chemistry that had the worst teaching style ever with only teachers college and had Chemistry as a hobby. The difference between the two was night and day and that was reflected in my marks (OAC Physics 92%, OAC Chemistry 66%)

[cjolley]

Teaching programming would be really fun and rewarding and I already have the certification,
but I would make about 33% of the money I make programming professionally.
That explains a lot.
chuck

[az]

Yeah my teacher explained to me that the problem with the american school system is (other than you have to pay very much for college) that the teachers are heavily underpaid, so the best people won't want to get teachers just because they can make much more money in other jobs (no offense to the teachers here, I'm sure there ARE good teachers in the US, but I think they are scarce).

Ahh yes and in german, you can simply take two words and stuff them together and you have a new one (where the last word is the word you really mean and the first one describes it)

For example, the door (T&uuml;r) of a house (Haus) is simply Haust&uuml;r, and the handle (Klinke) of a front door is a Haust&uuml;rklinke, and the cleaning cloth (Putztuch - again 2 words stuffed together ) with which you clean the handle of your front door would be Haust&uuml;rklinkenputztuch . I really like being able to do that .

Ahh yes, and another good reason for all you native english speakers to use good english here is that I can learn better (and actually more informal than we get to learn in school) english

AZ

[Liquid Snake]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cjolley:
5, Much too much crap other than school goes on in school now. For example, athletic coaches are paid way more than most teachers in a given school. Several times I had to cancel tests because the baseball coach decided that the team needed more practice during school hours before a game.</font>

Yep, I've seen stuff like that happen in my school with the sports teams.

[Joel]

Hey cjolley,

I think you should change your statements to read 'some parents'. As a parent, I don't expect the school system to raise my children, that is my responsibility. Their responsibility is, in my opinion, to see to it that my children at least learns the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic. In my opinion two of the main problems with the public education systems in the US, can't speak for other countries, are: 1) Our systems have been dumbed down so far, to accommodate the lowest denominator, that the good students get bored and give up and the good teachers frustrated enough that they will either stop caring or leave the profession 2) Social promotions - the belief that holding a kid back because he can't read or write will do him, or her, more harm than allowing them to advance with their other classmates.

Joel

PS My grammer may not be the best in the world, but I will endeavor to at least make sure my spelling is correct. If I am not sure of the spelling of a word then I use this thing called a dictionary. I know that's a radical idea but that's just me.

[cjolley]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joel:
Hey cjolley,

I think you should change your statements to read 'some parents'....
</font>

Good point Joel.
I changed it to "many" though, not just "some".
Some of the parents were wonderful.
Many were not

Your other points involve more complicated questions.
Research shows that holding kids back really does do them harm.
On the other hand, you can't slow down an entire class to help one or two kids catch up.
I suspect that this paradox explains why "one room schoolhouses” do so well.
With no "slots" to trap kids in, they can learn at there own rate and help each other.

The thing that laymen probably understand the least about learning is the amazing variation in development rate among kids.
I am not talking about intelligence.
I am talking about the physical development of the brain.
Take for example the case of two two-year-olds. Timmy can walk and Billy can't. Later in life Billy is an Olympic runner and Timmy isn't.
What could you tell about them when they were two? Only that Timmy developed walking skills sooner than Billy. Nothing at all about their potential.
The same thing happens in schools on a massive scale all the time!
Our entire system is designed without a thought for this.
Kids go through identifiable stages as they develop. But there is no set length to any of the stages and a given kid might go through one stage quickly & the next slowly or the opposite.
It makes the whole thing very complex and I think it explains much of the frustration that many people have with the way education is set up.
chuck

PS See, I told you that I could rant on this stuff for hours.

chuck



[This message has been edited by cjolley (edited 19 May 2001).]