Time for crow pie!

[Rags]

Originally posted by mdhome
I'm not sure how this is going to be taken but here goes *Sigh* .

Personally; for all the heat generated on these forums I have at least come away from this with a much better understanding of the US. I spent many years on the newsgroups listening to people on both sides of the pond and have learnt many things about the differences. Some were good, some were bad. I have also tried to explain this but I did it badly

I wont comment on the blindness of Europeans to the US except to say that some British love to bait the Americans (never been one of my past-times). However as far as I can tell this doesnt generally happen on MURC. In the process I have also had to listen to many Americans use their own status in the world to belittle other cultures. Believe me it does happen and it annoys the hell out of me. For those of you who think that arrogance is a one way thing, you are sadly mistaken.

regards MD

ps what does Crow Pie mean

I think I took your post as you meant it.

As to crow pie. It's a saying that when you happen to stick your neck out and make a solid declaration or statement, and it turns out you were flat wrong, it's called eating crow (sticking your foot in your mouth). Thus crow pie

Rags

[KeiFront]

Originally posted by Rags If the damned killing would stop and the ignorant people in this world would take two minutes to stop and think, then play nice, we wouldn't have problems. It all goes back to kindergarten times, learn to share, to empathize, to accept others who are different, and learn to play nice. But it just isn't happening, especially in the mideast.

Wow

[The PIT]

Well said Rags.

If you happen to be passing a playground in a mixed area you'll see kids of all races playing happily together. They don't care about skin colour race or religon. In a few years these kids will know all about skin colour, race and religon and mostly in a negative manner. They get this from their parents, newspapers, TV, books etc this doesn't really show us adults in a good light really does it.

[RedRed]

Rags:

We work very hard to make ends meet, are honest, and want our families to be safe. The reason I am so intent on this discussion is because many Europeans see us as people who don't care. We are labeled as lazy, stupid, and blind sheep. If they would take the time to know us, they would see we are a lot alike and have many of the same goals in life. I know that most of us hate to see people get killed, and that's where many Europeans have a problem with us. They think because we support defending our country and it's well being (self serving? You bet!), that we are blood thirsty cavemen, which we aren't. If the damned killing would stop and the ignorant people in this world would take two minutes to stop and think, then play nice, we wouldn't have problems. It all goes back to kindergarten times, learn to share, to empathize, to accept others who are different, and learn to play nice. But it just isn't happening, especially in the mideast.


You are doing it again!
You are mixing between the individuals of the state of America and the Govenment. I have never called americans (the people) lazy, stupid, sheep nor cavemen. The belief that the US (as a state) has 'played nice', as you say, is were I take issue.

Europeans cannot be defined the same way as Americans. Europeans, for the most part, belong to a country first, and to Europe second (or third or fourth). When you claim that we Europeans are ANYTHING specific, you are making a fundamental error. The Irish are significantly different from the English, the French are different politically to the Italians. Americans for the most part see them selves as American first, then the state they come from or the Ethnic group they belong to.

It terms of the fundamental desires of the individual, yes, we are basically the same. EVERYONE wants their families to be safe. Almost Everyone works hard to make end meet. That is benal.

Where there ARE differences, they lie in the political arena. That is what we discuss.
you say that 'many Europeans see us as people who don't care'.
WRONG. I think in fact many europeans see your GOVERNMENT as one that is consistently looking after the interests of a small number of pressure groups and short term interest.

You said also that binladen was distroyed now that the Talibhan was removed. I think you are completely wrong on this. Until he is dead, he will pose a serious threat to americans around the world. I mean some bloke tried to blow up a plane just last week! While he probably is not a member of AlQuada directly, his actions probably were directed by them.

A true terrorist organisation does not have tanks. Remember there has been a terror campaign running here for decades. Binladen does not need tanks. He needs martyrs.


KvHagedorn
This is NOT comming from the press. They are so far up Americas behind, you can hardly read a paper now!


RedRed

[KRSESQ]

the press...They are so far up Americas behind, you can hardly read a paper now!

So THAT'S where that damned hemorroid came from!

Now playing on MURC:The Thread That Wouldn't Die!!

Kevin

[Dilitante1]

Sighs...........

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of MURC-ywars!

[The PIT]

I think we found the editor of solicalist worker it's RedRed.

This thread is getting rather pointless it's going round and round in circles now.

[RedRed]

Pit, Would you for ever wise up?!!!!

I regularly read the Guardian and the Independant.

I dont read socialist crap.

[GinoCyber]

Now that we established that Italy is the best and the rest of the world is happy with eating chips n dip with piss beer, what point are you guys trying to make?

Ciao

[Rags]

Originally posted by GinoCyber
Now that we established that Italy is the best and the rest of the world is happy with eating chips n dip with piss beer, what point are you guys trying to make?

Ciao

Oh boy, an Italian chimes in. Let's see....the last war an Italian won was on Film....ROCKY, ROCKY, ROCKY.

Italy, the little engines that can't

Rags

[KvHagedorn]

the last war an Italian won was on Film

thought you were talking about Gladiator there..

wait, Maximus was a Spaniard.. never mind

[KeiFront]

Thread closed

[Rags]

Rags:

We work very hard to make ends meet, are honest, and want our families to be safe. The reason I am so intent on this discussion is because many Europeans see us as people who don't care. We are labeled as lazy, stupid, and blind sheep. If they would take the time to know us, they would see we are a lot alike and have many of the same goals in life. I know that most of us hate to see people get killed, and that's where many Europeans have a problem with us. They think because we support defending our country and it's well being (self serving? You bet!), that we are blood thirsty cavemen, which we aren't. If the damned killing would stop and the ignorant people in this world would take two minutes to stop and think, then play nice, we wouldn't have problems. It all goes back to kindergarten times, learn to share, to empathize, to accept others who are different, and learn to play nice. But it just isn't happening, especially in the mideast.


You are doing it again!
You are mixing between the individuals of the state of America and the Govenment. I have never called americans (the people) lazy, stupid, sheep nor cavemen. The belief that the US (as a state) has 'played nice', as you say, is were I take issue.

I am not doing it again. I am not mixing anything. I am saying many people. I never referred to you directly, but it has been said in this thread that many Europeans believe we like to throw our weight around, and our people have the appearance that we like to shove it in people's faces.
I never said the US has played nice. Don't twist my words (or learn to read).

Europeans cannot be defined the same way as Americans.

Sure they can.

Europeans, for the most part, belong to a country first, and to Europe second (or third or fourth).

Fine, I am a family man first, a member of my town second, a member of my state third, a member of the US third, and a member of North America fourth. What's your point?

When you claim that we Europeans are ANYTHING specific, you are making a fundamental error.

When did I claim Europeans were anything? Show me. Thanks.

The Irish are significantly different from the English, the French are different politically to the Italians.

What's your point? And what does it have to do with what I have said?

Americans for the most part see them selves as American first, then the state they come from or the Ethnic group they belong to.

You are wrong. We have a closer relationship with our ethnicity and our state than we do with our federal gov't. Thank you very much. Now, we (americans) all have a common thread we share, but so do the French, the Canadian, etc.

It terms of the fundamental desires of the individual, yes, we are basically the same. EVERYONE wants their families to be safe. Almost Everyone works hard to make end meet. That is benal.

Where there ARE differences, they lie in the political arena. That is what we discuss.

I was merely pointing out that we are people just like you, and our basic needs and desires are the same. To villify people who are just like you fundamentally because their gov't does things you don't like is fundamentally wrong. I didn't say you think this way, I don't know you enough. HOWEVER, some of the things said on this forum would lead one to believe that.

you say that 'many Europeans see us as people who don't care'.
WRONG. I think in fact many europeans see your GOVERNMENT as one that is consistently looking after the interests of a small number of pressure groups and short term interest.

That isn't wrong. That was the one thing that most of the Europeans agreed with when there were polls earlier this year while GWB was visiting all your lovely nations there.

You said also that binladen was distroyed now that the Talibhan was removed. I think you are completely wrong on this.

I DID NOT say that. Start using quotes and actual statements. You are changing what I said, and you are completely wrong. I know I have attacked your reading comprehension before, and am now about to do it again. The very least you could do is use DIRECT QUOTES.

Until he is dead, he will pose a serious threat to americans around the world. I mean some bloke tried to blow up a plane just last week! While he probably is not a member of AlQuada directly, his actions probably were directed by them.

If AlQuaeda is destroyed AND we never find laden, AND he is never heard from again, then it's the same as his death.

A true terrorist organisation does not have tanks. Remember there has been a terror campaign running here for decades. Binladen does not need tanks. He needs martyrs.

mmmmmmmmkaaaaayyyyy. Hyuck.

KvHagedorn
This is NOT comming from the press. They are so far up Americas behind, you can hardly read a paper now!


RedRed

Yes, your press is not as biased as it was 6 months ago, so I can see why a fair reporting on events may seem like a shock to you to the point where you would call it American bias. Because you are used to reading about how horrible we are, about how we cannot even elect people, about how we consume so much, about what proverbial pigs we are in the world. Now there is a little sauce of reality, and it stings, and if your ass hurts because of it, then I can safely surmise where your eyes were at the time

Rags

[ALBPM]

Well, this is going round and round. And who knows where it will all end up.

The Taliban has been removed from power but al-Qaida and bin Laden are still out there and still capable of organizing terrorist activities.

Red is right.... A terrorist organization doesn't need Bases, Tanks, etc... They are spread out all over the world and are still quite capable of influencing and encouraging bombings and other activities. The very simplicity of their networks defy all the sophisticated technology that Law Enforcement and the Military have at their disposal. And to make matters worse bin Laden has been Idolized by most of the Islamic people in Pakistan and a lot of other Islamic countries.

Even if we find and kill the Bastard someone else will fill his shoes and continue all this crap.

Yes, Al Qaida is on the Run!!!!


Meanwhile, the Afghans are very anxious to get the Coalition forces out of their country so they can start killing each other all over again. Just as they have done for centuries.

India and Pakistan are about to go to war. Pakistan is supported by China and North Korea. India has been armed by the Russians. On one side the Chinese have deliberately built cities and villages, allowing them to spill over into India's territory and Pakistan has been shelling India on it's borders.

The Mid-East is a Shithole!!!!
It has been one for centuries. Centuries before the U.S. even existed. So, no!! All this isn't the U.S.'s fault. But damit, if these Bastards kill people in the U.S. or any of our Allies countries they must be hunted down and eliminated.

That's enough for now.

Paul

[RedRed]

Thanks ALPBM.... I thaught I was a voice in the wilderness there (not that I gave a damn about that!).....

Rags.... (If I may adress your points in reverse order)


There was an article on Radio 4 yesterday about tabloid news coverage in the UK about the War and Sept 11th. Until 2 weeks ago, the Mirror, a UK tabloid (not one I read) had devoted an average of 12 pages to the war, EVERY SINGLE DAY from sept 11th. That was MORE than any US tabloid. This is excessive, exceeding by far every other paper (including most US ones). OK there is not MUCH happening in the UK which deserves local coverage (how in hell will we survice recession, the weakness of the opposition in Parliment at the moment, the fall and fall of UK manufacturing capacity) Other issues (the advent of the Euro andits impact....) which might have some relivence to the average UK citizen..... (On a point to note the Mirror reported its poorest quarter in terms of readership since 1964!!!! (The people of the UK are NOT as intrested in this as the media.)

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A true terrorist organisation does not have tanks. Remember there has been a terror campaign running here for decades. Binladen does not need tanks. He needs martyrs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


mmmmmmmmkaaaaayyyyy. Hyuck.


I dont understand this, but I assume you mean that its not important.... dream on. A british MP yesterday described the Afghan conflict as "treating a cancer with a blowtorch". It will make this organisation spread like a malignant tumour ripped open.....

quote
If AlQuaeda is destroyed AND we never find laden, AND he is never heard from again, then it's the same as his death.

dream on.... that is now 3 'ifs'.
1.
AlQuaeda (and Hammas)has a bloody postal address in Syria.... I havent seen any airstrikes there!
2
If he is alive, you might not.... Robin Hood syndrome... He doesnt HAVE to be alive!
3
All he needs is a couple of mates with a VCR to have the Pentagon examining their navel to see where he will strike next.

A direct quote then, for the next point

In order for him to remain at large, he will have to remain silent both publically and militarily (active aggression). I was saying if we don't find his body or never hear from him again, then it's the same thing as having him dead. If we hear from his ass again, we will get him.

Ba**ocks.
he is the figurehead for that evil organisation, he hasnt pulled a trigger (as far as we know) since he was set up by the US to fight the Russians. It is as a figurehead he operates. It is as a banner to which every misguided and dispossessed muslim extreemist can rally to.

I will accept the point that it wasnt the Talibhan, it was AlQueada... too much chrimbo cheer.....

The whole of the rest of your pos next!

Sorry.... I feel that you are not correct on this AT ALL. No european schoolchild sings a Euro-Anthem nor pledges allegance to a euro-flag. Most homespun american schoolchildren (and that is NOT meant to be an insult - I am referring to 2nd-3rd+++ generation here) DO this as part of their daily lives. The flag of the US flies on many public buildings (schools etc).... Not in Most Euro countries. You paint all of Europe with the same brush, and Ihave a problem that. Europe is still mearly a 'common market', with some harmonisation. It is not yet a European Superstate'.

I was mearly trying to differentiate between the individual and the state. There was NO debate on this, in my earlier post. My negative comments are aimed at the Governmental apparatus of the US NEVER at individuals. If you agree with them all then I think you would be a fool. Even you have agreed with MDhome that the US has made mistakes in some of its forien policies.....

RedRed