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**mutz** · 1 October 2002, 03:01

...I find these "events" embarrassing, so transparent, so crude, so unprofessional. But then again, it's only to grab a headline, an imprint, a vote. It's cheap too, already in a budget, and a throw-away.

...reminds me of Nixon...

**RedRed** · 1 October 2002, 04:03

things were never the same after Oliver North!

RedRed

**RedRed** · 1 October 2002, 04:07

Of course, it might not have been the CIA... Whats the Turkish secret service called? they might have wanted a bit of credibility.... Bit of a cack-handed way to go about it though....

Turkey always was a hotbed of spooks. Wasn't it? East meets West, and all that Bosphorous(SP?) stuff....

RedRed

**Dr Mordrid** · 1 October 2002, 05:41

No effective delivery 'eh?

He has illegally obtained IRBM's that can reach Europe since the inspectors left and has modded some aircraft for remote control, basically turning them into cruise missiles.

Just how hard do you think it is to produce RPV's anyhow? Take your basic off-the-shelf remote control airplane parts, scale them up and add a more powerful transmitter/receiver and you're in business. That's what the US did.

Crazy is worse than stupid as it frequently reduces the attention paid to self-preservation. Not what you want with a megalomaniac despot who might have nukes

As for not being able to reach the US, that's moronic. Anyone can reach the US by putting a WMD into a shipping container. 99% go uninspected.

Dr. Mordrid

**GNEP** · 1 October 2002, 05:43

Erm, some would say that Turkey is in Europe, and that isn't exactly very far from Iraq... So Dr Mordrid, can you clarify a bit when you say "can reach Europe"?

Ta

gnep

**RedRed** · 1 October 2002, 06:08

Dr Mordrid

What is the chances that ANYTHING north or south of the no fly zone could get off the ground!
Iraq would not likely have the capability to have a tight beam radio transmitter - required if the Iraquis dont want to recieve a HARM missile up the Jacksie.....

Iraq doesnt have sattellite coverage - The US do.... they cant bounce it of a bird...... as the yanks do, I understand.

The north of Iraq is mountinous... the only way for such a jet to get out (remember it has to take off 200MILES south - in the no fly zone) is to fly NOE (Nap Of Earth) - you cant do that and maintain the radio beam.

The Jet idea is so much hype.... useful for tactical strikes against soft targets (Iran or Kurds), not europe.

Only 3 missles were left unaccounted for after the Gulf war - scuds tactical only, and useless for a chemical attack anyway...

He doesnt have any tech to attack us in europe...

Freight, yes.
If I was him, however, I would have deployed and stored this years ago... I wouldnt be waiting for the attack. When the attack came, then lett them rip. Who is going to handle a container form Iraq nowadays?

IRBMS
Which? if its the Korean model you are referring to, they have a range of what 800 miles - tops - I havent looked it up. again, this activity (setting the thing up) would have to be done in central Iraq... That automatically knocks off 200 miles.... no europe.(except Turkey - bad luck there!)

Regards
RedRed

**Dr Mordrid** · 1 October 2002, 06:08

Before the inspectors destroyed most of them Iraq had MRBM's and IRBM's (medium and intermediate range ballistic missiles):

MRBM:

AL HUSSEIN (modded SCUD): 600 km

several others in this group were tested.

Space launch vehicle (convertable to IRBM):

Tamouz (3 stage): unknown
AL ABID: unknown but estimated at 2500km (tested in 1989)

Source: CDISS (Centre for Defence and International Security Studies at Lancaster University, UK)

Cdiss.org – Tykeimmät pelit ja arvostelut netissä

http://www.cdiss.org

Anything lanched from Baghdad (outside of the NFZ's) with a range of ~1000 km could reach as far as the Black Sea and Greece as well as most of the Middle East. Ranges of 2000+ km would reach most of central Europe.

If Iraq goes with a poor-mans cruise missile it doesn't require radio contact, just a digital elevation map of the area and a small computer with an accurate air speed and timing program. The Germans did great in terrorizing Britain using just ballistic flight.

Feel better now?

While most of Iraq's missiles & facilities were destroyed during the first round of inspections you just have to know that we didn't get 'em all and they have had four years to ramp testing and production back up on at least some of these. Given how porous their borders are and how poorly the UN has been "enforcing" the resolutions....

If you think they haven't then I have this bridge for sale in Brooklyn

Dr. Mordrid

**Vlip** · 1 October 2002, 09:03

Let me precise that after much disinformation was spewed right and left that that lovely 33lbs of weapon grade uranium turned out to be .... [suspense]... 5 oz of zinc, iron, zirconium and manganese.
Paint me unaffraid

By Associated Press

September 30, 2002, 8:43 PM EDT

ANKARA, Turkey -- Atomic energy officials said Monday that a substance seized by police near the Syrian border was not weapons-grade uranium as Turkish officials first reported, according to the Anatolia news agency.

Atomic Energy Institute chief Guler Koksal said the material was harmless, containing zinc, iron, zirconium and manganese.

**Dogbert** · 1 October 2002, 09:06

Dumb question:

Why was it supposedly hidden in the taxi ?

**Vlip** · 1 October 2002, 09:08

Maybe because the smugglers actually believed to have real uranium. You know, the uranium black market is filled with everything but real uranium, as you can't really test it on the field (like drug for example) it allows people to sell fake uranium, take the money and run for their lives.

**mutz** · 1 October 2002, 09:08

...the worldwide stock market drops, world economy chaos, layoffs everywhere, those you can't blame on Saddam Hussain, rather those at the source of uproar, threats and fear mongering. Eh?

**RedRed** · 1 October 2002, 09:27

Dr Mordrid...

The V2 rocket fired by the Germans had only 532 hits on London - out of 1362 attempts....

that was at a range of only 200 miles or less.

Even if Saddam had complete accuracy, he could launch at most 10 planes... I would expect NONE of these to get past the fighter cover in the NFZ

The Digital model/complete remote wouldnt work, as the digital resolution of northern Iraq is too low (in publically available resolutions - the US probably has better), and anyway it was radio control discussed as its deployment method already.. it would require SIGNIFICANT development work to build one of these - especially if you werent allowed to actuall fly one of the brutes to test it!

The missile you refer to, I believe exploded on test, you wouldnt want to rely on that as a nuke delivery system....

Iraq has no significant delivery system...

**GT98** · 1 October 2002, 09:28

Originally posted by Vlip
Let me precise that after much disinformation was spewed right and left that that lovely 33lbs of weapon grade uranium turned out to be .... [suspense]... 5 oz of zinc, iron, zirconium and manganese.
Paint me unaffraid

Just goes to show you that the Press (esp the American press) often over hypes stuff...Look at what happened to those morons in Florida. Quite disgusting if you ask me...the role of the press is to report the news...not make it...all for a ****ing buck

**mutz** · 1 October 2002, 10:10

...and all those guys in all those events have somehow disappeared, no?

It takes a pretty deep cover to withstand much scrutiny...

**Dr Mordrid** · 1 October 2002, 10:45

It wasn't the US press that broke the "uranium" story....it was Reuters

REDRED: V2 scored "only" 532 hits 'eh?

Wonder how many families in the UK would hit you over the head with a baseball bat for that comment

Dr. Mordrid

Announcement

Reuters: 33 lbs of weapons grade Uranium seized....

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