UK going to crack down on firearms

[rubank]

KvH,

reality is what is fundamentally wrong with your ideas.

You have all that you´re advocating in the US, including death penalties and yet you have the highest crime rate of any western society - and by far the highest percentage of your population imprisoned.

I´m greatful I live in a civilized "soft on crime" european country with a judicial system that isn´t a joke, and still have my freedom to own guns for hunting and sporting.

Your alternative is a neanderthalian deviation from what mankind has accomplished during the last centuries.
But you are not alone, the principal applies to other countries with high crime rates, like Russia and China. Nice company, eh?

rubank

[The PIT]

Out of interest rubank whats your proposed solution.

[KvHagedorn]

rubank, now that your country has foolishly opened the gates to immigration, we'll see how long your utopia lasts. Japan has a low crime rate too.. because it is an essentially homogenous society. For some reason, though, you think having a homogenous society is evil. You will find how wrong you were, and by then you won't be able to correct things.

[KvHagedorn]

Alright, I am going to have to do this anyway (sigh, why can't people think of these things themselves)

Good judgement has been reinforced within your society for many generations. There is a common way of thinking, which has filtered into your laws. People know right from wrong there.. there aren't other issues to muddy the waters. When you have one group of people living in close proximity to another group of people you fear and mistrust, things are bound to happen. Look at the OJ trial. A black jury let a killer go free because they "felt" that one of the cops was a racist. That's just one instance, but I could come up with a thousand more and so could you.. look at Israel and the Arabs for one.. Look at Ireland.. Look next door at Norway which foolishly let Albanians move in there, only to find that now they have a mafia for some reason.

You'll find out one day..

[Novdid]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
[B]Another thing, and this is for Novdid and others who want to avoid any situation where the government dirties its hands fighting fire with fire, where is this utopia of perfect justice going to come from?...[B]

Your reality differs a lot from mine. Come to scandinavia or germany maybe even the netherlands. It differs quite a lot from the UK and US. (OK, OK, people are shot down here too...but not nearly as often.)

If you know how you can get a gun here it's easy to get one, BUT if you don't have the right connections it's very hard and dangerous cause the police will be right behind you if they catch your scent. 99% of the people here does not know where they can get hold of handguns, therefore don't even try. (that's one of many reasons why most shootings here are made with various hunting rifles) In US it's generally as easy as going down to the supermarket and buy some alcohol, and everybody knows where and what they should do to get hold of a gun. I think we here are doing something right...

The whole world is not like your America. Sometimes I feel you (not only you Kv) can't manage to grasp that. We don't need the deathpenalty, we don't need harsher punishments in many cases, and WE ARE NOT NAIVE. It's only pathetic when you bring up points like the "albanian mafia" and such. You don't know squat about us or our countries and you still point to us like we're some kind of kids not able to manage ourselves. Get a grip my friend, and think again before you post in the future.

Edit: I didn't get the bold thing right the first time...

[KvHagedorn]

What I brought up about the Albanian mafia was from a Norwegian MURCer's post. I may be naive about how wonderful things are in Sweden, but have you been here? Have you been to visit The PIT? If you have not lived here you could not reasonably understand the sort of society we live in, either. I do have a friend from the Netherlands here and from talking with him, they have found out the hard way about immigration and what it does to a society. I KNOW Sweden doesn't have the same problems we do here and in the U.K., but what you are unwilling to admit to is WHY you don't have these problems. Read my post above yours.

And Rubank, when you address issues in such a shallow light,

reality is what is fundamentally wrong with your ideas.

You have all that you´re advocating in the US, including death penalties and yet you have the highest crime rate of any western society - and by far the highest percentage of your population imprisoned.

and throw in deprecating remarks,

Your alternative is a neanderthalian deviation from what mankind has accomplished during the last centuries.
But you are not alone, the principal applies to other countries with high crime rates, like Russia and China. Nice company, eh?

I must assume you have no substantive argument to make on the matter. You aren't understanding the underlying cause of the NEED for these "neanderthalian deviations." China and Russia have the same problems as we do (Russia to a much greater extent) because of the same reasons I listed above. If you think you are so superior to us here, use your brain (unless it is a "neanderthalian deviation" )and reason why things might be better in Sweden than they are here.

Novdid, you ARE naive if you have lived in Sweden your whole life. Naive about understanding in your heart why some of these problems exist in other places and why your own methods for dealing with crime might not work here. It's painfully obvious that you cannot grasp why we do things the way we do them, but did I criticise you for not having the death penalty? I don't think I did. I DID criticise the U.K., along with TP for being soft on crime, because they seem to need tougher measures.

Since I have never lived in Sweden, I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but in your scenario of the police being right behind you if they caught the scent of someone with a gun, would these police be able to enter a large neighborhood made up of some random group of foreigners who consider them the enemy rather than public servants and expect any cooperation? This gun bearer would find refuge because no one would inform on him.

If you are ignorant of this hell, I am ignorant of your paradise, so maybe you should just get a grip and think before you post again. Stop and thank God you don't have these problems, rather than acting like you could not have these very same problems under similar circumstances. Read here and learn.. maybe then you can keep your paradise.

[thop]

Since I have never lived in Sweden, I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but in your scenario of the police being right behind you if they caught the scent of someone with a gun, would these police be able to enter a large neighborhood made up of some random group of foreigners who consider them the enemy rather than public servants and expect any cooperation? This gun bearer would find refuge because no one would inform on him.

You really need to get out of the US a bit. Go to Sweden during the easter holidays, it is lovely there

[KvHagedorn]

That would be wonderful.. PM me and I'll give you the address to send the tickets.

[The PIT]

Kvh I agree with you we are soft on crime. Anyway at work now can't say much.

[The PIT]

The crack down will probably go the same way of clamping down on Burglars. Community service cos the judge knows best.

[The PIT]

Guess what. The uk Government is backing down and its going to left to the judges. This means that nothing will be done.

[RedRed]

Well, not quite, Pit!

We have the highest levels of prison populations since records began - currently we (the UK as a whole) has a prison population of 72,000, which is only 2000 short of the design capacity of our prison service.

it does look like it will become an offense to carry even a replica gun in public though! a good move I say.

Thre was a 'newsnight' here just now which said that 75% OF ALL GUN CRIME was carried out using MODIFIED REPLICAS.

RedRed

[Wombat]

And the fact that you've got "replica" written down the side of your guns and the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle, point five O", written on the side of mine should precipitate your balls into shrinking along with your presence. Now. FIII off!

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Wombat
And the fact that you've got "replica" written down the side of your guns and the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle, point five O", written on the side of mine should precipitate your balls into shrinking along with your presence. Now. FIII off!

Such a Classic..

[The PIT]

Originally posted by RedRed
Well, not quite, Pit!

We have the highest levels of prison populations since records began - currently we (the UK as a whole) has a prison population of 72,000, which is only 2000 short of the design capacity of our prison service.

I don't give a F"£$ how full the prisons are. If you broke the law you should pay and while they off the streets they're not bothering anyone else. If they're getting full we'll have to build some more

it does look like it will become an offense to carry even a replica gun in public though! a good move I say.

The Government doesn't seem to know what they're doing. If they leave to the judges, the judges will mess up as they tend too.

Thre was a 'newsnight' here just now which said that 75% OF ALL GUN CRIME was carried out using MODIFIED REPLICAS.

RedRed