Harmless...?

[Jammrock]

MY A**...this is a vent/rant more than anything...I apologize if this is flame bait.

Last night I got a call from my sister-in-law asking what the deal was with my younger brother. After some investigation I found out he had overdosed on about 30 hits of LSD that had taken him on a 3 day hallucination trip and landed him in the hospital.

When I finally arrived, my Dad came out of the hospital room and started crying the second he saw my wife and I - side note: in my 28 years on this Earth, that was the *first* time I have ever seen my Father cry. We consoled him as best we could and then I went in to check on my brother.

He was pulling and poking at his eyes, chin, forehead, skull and arms because, "scaled worms were eating him." There was a phone implanted in his head by the FBI and they were singing Beattles songs ('I want to hold your hand' and 'Helter skelter') and Handel's Messiah.

He was arguing with the security guard as to why the hopital wouldn't give him a scalple and tweezers so he could cut himself open and get the worms out before they ate him to death. His eyes were almost bugged out of his head, like some Looney Tune cartoon, and he was acting completely opposite of his normal self. He seemed ... possesed - being the best term we can describe it.

He's just been tranfered to a state hospital for treatment. We fear that the amounts of LSD he took may have cooked his brain, but only time will tell if he is recoverable.

And guess how it all started? Someone talked him into smoking pot. Once he got accustom to the pot high, he started experimenting with new drugs, eventually leading him to 30 hits of acid.

So anyone who says pot is harmless, you are now officially a liar in my book (at least when drugs are involved).

When people say, "don't do drugs," believe them. That s*** will f*** you up worse than anything else.

Jammrock - very pissed that he has to spend the next two hours of his life searching his brother's stuff to make sure he didn't bring any drugs into his parents house.

[The PIT]

Sorry to hear about this. I hope the LSD hasn't done any harm and that your brother comes round and then leaves all this drug trash behind.

[thop]

Sorry to hear that, and i really hope he doesn't get any permanent psychic damage from it, although chances are he will.
Still this has nothing to do with pot, but, sorry to say that, with the stupidity of your brother. If you play with fire, you get burnt if you don't know what you're doing.

[Gurm]

Ok, I'm gonna post some flame bait in response.

*ahem*

Your argument about pot is meaningless.

I'm truly sorry for your brother, but some thoughts:

1. Why would ANYONE do 30 hits of acid? WHY? WHY WHY WHY? Even the most die-hard acid freaks I've EVER KNOWN, who were (I thought) beyond redemption and would trip EVERY NIGHT... only did a few hits at a time.

2. Don't blame the pot. Why not blame alcohol? Or cigarettes? I mean, let's face it - virtually 100% of people who smoke pot have tried alcohol. So isn't alcohol the TRUE gateway drug? And ALMOST 100% of people who have smoked pot have tried a cigarette. So isn't nicotine the TRUE gateway drug?

Point in fact is that the entire nonsense of "gateway drugs" is just that - nonsense. ESPECIALLY when kids/teenagers are involved. In fact, Slate just ran an EXCELLENT editorial on how drug rehab programs take in casual pot smokers and turn out crack addicts.

I am TRULY sorry about your brother, and hope that he recovers. But let's place the blame where it truly lies - peer pressure, coersion, his poor judgement... not pot.

- Gurm

[Jammrock]

Gurm, pot was his gateway drug. He drank and smoked for years before he took his first huff of pot. It's true that it was his own poor judgement that got him in the mess, but after the pot started, it all went downhill from there.

I've seen it first hand now, so your little rant editorial quotes are are meaningless in my eyes - someone who has seen the progression (yes I tried to stop it many times) with my own eyes.

Jammrock

[thop]

I can imagine that in the current situation it is easier for you to blame pot for your brothers trouble, but actually the only one to blame for his problems is him.

Maybe pot was the gateway drug for him, but for the vast majority of the other pot smokers out there it isn't.

[Gurm]

Yeah, let's face facts here. If he drank and smoked for years, he was well on his way.

The fact (yes, FACT - scientific FACT) remains that pot is not physically addictive.

Now, let's discuss something else...

---------------

THIRTY HITS?

THREE-OH?

THIRTY?

Now, my experience with acid is pretty limited. I went to private school, we experimented, 'nuff said.

NOBODY DOES 30 HITS OF ACID.

Julie went to a forensic seminar, and the topic came up. NOBODY DOES THAT MUCH ACID.

The _VERY_FIRST_ question I'd ask if told someone I knew had done 30 hits of acid... would be "who forced them?"

You CANNOT blame pot for this.

DIE-HARD acid freaks don't do 30 hits. They do 5.

No dealer would sell him 30 hits.

And how did they determine that he had done 30 hits? I mean, do you have any idea how LONG it would take to suck down 30 hits? By the time you're on hit 4, hits 1 and 2 are well underway and you couldn't CONCENTRATE on doing hit 5.

Has anyone looked into who he was with when he did this?

People OD on Heroin, they OD on crack, they have bad reactions to X or Meth or PCP.

But unless you had your hands on some liquid LSD (pre-hit), there's just no easy way to get 30 hits into your body... on your own.

And I reiterate - I'm VERY sorry and I do empathize. But you can't sit back and blame "the drugs", because that's just not a sensible thing to do. It's easy to blame "the drugs". And I know you want someone to blame. But I'd REALLY look into who he was with, and the circumstances surrounding the incident...

- Gurm

[Jessterw]

I'm really sorry to hear about your brother Jam, I have people in my family deal with drug problems so I can somewhat empathize. I hope he will come out of this ok (physically, mentally) and can get help with his addiction/habit, because without help it's doubtful he will ever be able to break the habit. It's sad because even if he does come clean, the smallest things, such as a cigaretter, can make him regress.

I've got to agree with you and Gurm on this. There are gateway drugs and yes alcohol and cigarettes are probably the "true" gateway drugs, however many people who have tried pot will move on to stronger drugs simply because they have an addictive personality, in that they easily become addicted and will crave more and more and stronger drugs. Pot is one of those drugs that some can handle, some can't; some can stay with it, some will crave more. The same goes for any drug or addictive substance (narcotic).

I'm one of those people who believes that we are responsible for the choices we make in our lives, however there is undeniably environmental (people, places, etc) that can affect the choices we make.

Anyhow, my best wishes to you and your family.

Originally posted by Gurm
No dealer would sell him 30 hits.

Gotta disagree here. Having grown up in one of the most heavily drug influenced cities in the country (US), I know almost first-hand that a drug dealer will sell you however much you want, unless the dealer has some kind of conscience, at which point I'd say I doubt he's a very good dealer. Generally I'd agree that a dealer wouldn't to sell someone enough to kill themselves with, as that's a lost customer, however if they can make enough money off the sale then they really don't care. They wouldn't be selling drugs if they cared.

Why wouldn't a dealer sell someone enough LCD to OD on when they have no problem selling enough of anything else to OD on?

[RedRed]

This is really hard - I sympathise with you Jammrock.

I gotta agree with Grum that it would be very difficult to take 30 Acid hits in one sitting, of your own free will. Even Drunk and 'off your face', I think it would be hard to do that. (it might depend on the quality of the stuff, of course.... The only time I have heard of someone taking those sorts of doses was with Magic Mushrooms (120+++) in tea....

I think its as Gurm was saying as well, though, its Peer pressure, coersion and lack of judgement that makes someone go out there and escalate that kind of habit. I used to smoke 'weed' occasionally, but was never inclined to try anything harder. The only time I have smoked now is perhaps at christmas/new year....

I sincerely do hope that he recovers

RedRed

[Gurm]

I have to stop this argument now. I realize that Jamm just needs to vent, this is a very frustrating time for him and his family.

I'm not gonna escalate this any further, but SERIOUSLY look into foul play, ok? I don't know how you could do 30 hits at one time of your own free will, I just don't.

- Gurm

[Wombat]

I'm really sorry for what has happened to your brother. However, the "gateway drug" theory is bullshit. Pot isn't "to blame." I hate to sound harsh when you're going through all this, but you've already come in here on the offensive so: Your brother is the only person to blame for his situation. He's a druggie. He ****ed up his life. Him. Not pot. Not anybody else.

I fail to see how marijuana and LSD are related here. They are different experiences entirely. I've never considered smoking pot, but I did consider hallucinogens, mescaline in particular. The experience is tempting to me. Why didn't I? I read up, and most hallucinogens in any dose cause brain damage, and the lifelong potential for flashbacks is a big minus as well.

Your brother either wasn't smart enough to see that, or didn't care.

I'm not heartless, but you didn't come here to grieve, you came here to blame.

[Wombat]

And he could have done 30 hits on his own. I knew a real idiot in high school, and he got his LSD in strips of ten stamps. I remember him telling me that he'd lick a strip or two, and then put them on his forearm - so if that "counts" as taking 20....

[Evildead666]

That much acid would seriously sweriously damage your health. As far as i know, the chemicals related to taking acid are not flushed out of the brain.
This would mean flashbacks.
30 tabs of acid, is by any means extreme...
No-one in their right mind, would even have that many available to themselves at one time. Why have the 30 in the first place...
thats a lot of tabs. From what i can gather, and the prices ,uhh, ....10 years ago, that would be 30x30$=900 bucks.
even 450bucks is a lot of cash.
Did someone not force him to do this....

I really hope he recovers. I wish all the best. There just has to be more of an investigation into this...

Good luck.

[Wombat]

Acid only goes for $1 or $2/hit often.

[Evildead666]

It was expensive here, i know. but i didnt know it was that much. times have changed......