Harmless...?

[Admiral]

You'll have to pardon me and you have my sympathy on what happened, but does anyone think suicide attempt ?

[Wombat]

Suicide by acid? Ouch. It'll make you a vegetable before it kills you. A worse fate, to me.

[KvHagedorn]

I'm very sorry this happened to your family, Jammrock.

Tobacco is the gateway drug. Why do I pin this on tobacco exclusively? Nicotine makes addictive personalities. That young girl who I was talking about in another thread, the "innocent" who is just experimenting with life, often tries a cigarette first, before pot, but probably not before alcohol. Why wasn't alcohol the gateway drug then? Alcohol is not addictive in the same way. The vast majority of us use alcohol on an occasional basis with no hint of addiction. There is a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism in some people (proof? Look at American Indians and Irish and tell me why more people within these populations tend to become alcoholics.) At any rate, experimenting with alcohol is not like "experimenting" with tobacco. Nicotine is highly addictive for almost everyone who tries it. (I think the figures were 90+% for nicotine as opposed to about 18% for alcohol, and alcohol took a longer period of exposure.) That girl who was "just experimenting" will get hooked on cigarettes very quickly (studies show this happens within 3 weeks for adolescent girls, in boys it takes a bit longer for some reason.) Becoming addicted to tobacco can change a young personality. There is so much uncertainty in life, but one thing will "calm your nerves".. a cigarette. In the state of denial addicted people enforce upon themselves, they will not face the fact that they never seemed to need to "calm their nerves" before they started smoking.. what they are not facing is that this is the physical addiction which nags them to smoke again.

Tobacco companies have sought ways to enhance this addiction, as well. If you have ever seen a movie called The Insider, this was based upon a true story. The main character was a chemist who tried various additives just to achieve the effect of getting nicotine into the brain faster. The tobacco company he worked for called cigarettes a "nicotine delivery mechanism" or something like that. The tobacco industry acts much like druglords do as well. They make huge profits from their product, and use them to perpetuate their crime (which in this case is legalized.) The tobacco lobby is huge.

What are the larger implications? Kids see tobacco as "OK" not only because it is legal, but because it is thoroughly proliferated in society. Hey, Churchill and FDR smoked and they were paragons of virtue, right? The same is now becoming true of pot, because those who use it get very indignant at anyone who attacks it, saying "oh, George Washington smoked it" or whatever. So, with the eroded credibility of government making legality less of an issue, pot has become "OK" as well. But I digress. Smokers have become psychologically accustomed to being dependent on a substance. They have evolved the cloak of denial early in life to shield them from thinking too much about the implications of what they are doing. It is this same cloak of denial that lets them "experiment" with hard drugs. Pot does help in that it makes them not care about those things, but the real behavior pattern created by nicotine has already done its work.

[Jon P. Inghram]

Originally posted by Wombat
I've never considered smoking pot, but I did consider hallucinogens, mescaline in particular. The experience is tempting to me. Why didn't I? I read up, and most hallucinogens in any dose cause brain damage, and the lifelong potential for flashbacks is a big minus as well.

Apparently, nitrous oxide is a (relatively) safe hallucinogen. Never tried any "mind altering" substances myself, other than the occasional alcoholic beverage though.

[Wombat]

Nah. These days I tend to prefer changing reality, rather than my perception of it. Besides, I'm not a fan of oxygen depravation.

[Gurm]

Originally posted by Wombat
And he could have done 30 hits on his own. I knew a real idiot in high school, and he got his LSD in strips of ten stamps. I remember him telling me that he'd lick a strip or two, and then put them on his forearm - so if that "counts" as taking 20....

Not really. If he was "licking" the strip it isn't very strong acid to begin with.

I discussed this with one of my more questionable acquaintances and he said...

"Well, if he was used to mickey-mouse strength acid and someone slipped him skull-n-bones strength..."

But he still would have had to ball up the entire sheet and stuff it in his mouth. Not something anyone would voluntarily do.

- Gurm

[ZokesPro]

Now I haven't read the whole thread but 30 hits of LCD can literally land you in the insane asylum for the rest of your life. It awakens mental illnesses that someone may not have been aware they had. But LSD has evolved since it was first released so he might be able to snap out o fit, but he'll still exprerience flash backs for the rest of his life. I know too many people that took LSD and they aren't normal anymore. I'm sorry to hear about what happened.

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by Jammrock
Gurm, pot was his gateway drug. He drank and smoked for years before he took his first huff of pot. It's true that it was his own poor judgement that got him in the mess, but after the pot started, it all went downhill from there.

I've seen it first hand now, so your little rant editorial quotes are are meaningless in my eyes - someone who has seen the progression (yes I tried to stop it many times) with my own eyes.

Jammrock

Pot is NOT a gateway drug. many succesful people smoke pot for many years without ever "wanting" to take anything else. It's like saying that sleeping aids makes you want to take heroin, there's no logical sense to that argument.

I've been smoking marijuana for a year now and I NEVER EVER felt the need to take anything else. i know what everything else does and I'm not interested at all.

My 0.02 cents.

[Chrono_Wanderer]

Sorry to here this Jammrock. I really don't understand why people take drugs. There are people out there born physically/metally ill and is not their fault. There are also people out there waiting for organs probably due to some tragedy. Meanwhile we have lucky ppl born healthily and are actually looking foreward to damange what they are generously given.

Really if these people don't want their life just donate themselves. This is never a fair world...

Dinner time... rushed this post a bit..... lots of typos i bet

My 0.0001 cent

[Pace]

Well, I didn't want to contribute to this thread as an argument. I then realised though, that this might stop something else similar happening.

I feel that pot could be a gateway. So could a cigarette. I doubt anyone will just start injecting themselves with class A drugs, although it's possible.

I don't think that pot always leads onto harder stuff, but if it does in one case - if a guy does pot then takes a little tablet for a bigger hit, takes a reaction and dies within 60seconds - would it not be worth ensuring he never took pot?

I feel that pot can show you that drugs are harmless, which is a rather sad view. I say legalise pot, and as always, go harder on the "real" drugs.

P.

[William]

My feeling (based partly on what I've seen happen) is that it's not so much that the drug is a gateway; so much as the social environment you join partly as a result is the gateway.

From my perspective, drinking was a gateway, because it put me into a position where smoking pot was socially acceptable. Fortunately, I got out of it, but if I'd started using it regurlarly, I feel fairly sure I would have moved into a social circle where it was acceptable to use something stronger; and so on.

I guess it really shows that nothing you do is without effect on other aspects of your life. </philosophy>

[Jessterw]

One thing or another can't really be blamed, as it's a combination of personality, social environment, drugs, etc. Any drug or addictive substance can be a gateway drug, but I would say that alcohol (in small amounts of cases) and nicotine are the real gateway drugs for more people. Every case is different though, so there's no way to say this is this or that is that 100% of the time.

I would say I agree alot with what William said in his last post, as it perfectly illustrates my point.

[Marshmallowman]

I sympathise with you and your family Jammrock.

I would be asking who he was with when it happened, don't single out pot. I agree with william, its the environment he is in. I used to know a few people who thought it would be funny to get you to have "an" axtra trip to freak you out. But 30 just says he is with bad people!!!.

[Wombat]

From my perspective, drinking was a gateway, because it put me into a position where smoking pot was socially acceptable. Fortunately, I got out of it, but if I'd started using it regurlarly, I feel fairly sure I would have moved into a social circle where it was acceptable to use something stronger; and so on.

Bull. This sounds strongly reminiscient of the arguments against music like Judas Priest and Marilyn Manson.

[KvHagedorn]

Actually, William's argument has lots of merit. It's difficult to find friends to relate to now, and almost all of them have faults. Your choices are often just loneliness or going with the flow. (That is, if you are a certain type of person)