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  • #31
    no that's not what I'm saying
    on page one of this thread, at the very bottom,
    I quoted this from the Tech Report:

    TR: Does the Parhelia chip have any provisions for memory bandwidth conservation? If so, which techniques are implemented—Z compression, occlusion culling, fast Z clear? I see it has a "depth acceleration unit for advanced Z processing," but I'm looking for more detail.

    DW: The Depth Acceleration unit and Depth Cache deals with the Z-buffer and managing access to the Z-buffer in an efficient way. This area includes logic to perform fast Z clears and also sophisticated logic to queue up Z-reads and Z-writes so that they are always done in burst access. And more generally, while Parhelia-512 has a great deal of raw memory bandwidth, it is an intelligent memory controller whose architecture allows granular access of data and also optimizes the access from the intensity, depth, fragment and texture buffers through multiple independent sub-controllers.
    The overall architecture of the entire chip is extremely complex with various optimization techniques. Some topline optimizations are the inclusion of fast Z clears and multiple large caches to hide page breaks and to maximize burst efficiency. If you look on the chip block diagram you will see that the depth unit, Fragment AA unit, pixel unit, texture units and the display units all interact with the 512-bit Memory controller array. Each of these sub-units has specific logic to optimize memory efficiency, and the memory controller array itself then arbitrates between all of the different requests sent by these different units. There are multiple independent controllers in this array and they can access different information simultaneously.

    Wow. I'm getting all tingly.
    ok, so where does it mention displacement mapping or adaptive depth tessellation? It doesn't. Look at the diagram & read it again. DM & DAT will be great for new games, but he's talking about something that will work with all applications. I think it was Tom's that went on about nVidia's great memory controller & how a 256bit bus wouldn't make Parhelia faster if it didn't have granular access---the answer to his moaning is above as well.


    ---e
    Iwill KK266-R
    Athlon Tbird 1GHz AYHJAR oc'd to 1.5 GHz
    128 megs Corsair PC133
    Windows 98 SE
    Matrox G400 MAX DH 32mb
    -----------------------------------

    Comment


    • #32
      Wow. Ive been going around the message boards on the net and there is certainly some interest. Of course there are ALOT of people yet to be convinced because of what nVidia and ATI have provided for them, but 'tis looking good

      Comment


      • #33
        Yes reading the statement makes you believe that this thing has a very smart memory controller!

        Comment


        • #34
          Just got to this topic, but that's pretty much what I was replying about in another topic where discussion concerning P's memory management/bandwidth is going on. That particular article was one of the ones that made me think that P has some real powerful memory management techniques being used (aka really good granularity of access to the dual 256bit buses). As I said in my other post, the nVidia crossbar controller in the GF4 seems to have made the biggest difference in it's bandwidth efficiency, even when compared to all the other occlusion culling / z-buffer stuff that nV and ATI are using (ATI's occlusion techniqes are currently better than nVs, and the 8500 has higher memory bandwidth, but the GF4 cards still far outperform the 8500's in high memory intense situations).

          Parhelia is gonna seriously rule the roost!
          "..so much for subtlety.."

          System specs:
          Gainward Ti4600
          AMD Athlon XP2100+ (o.c. to 1845MHz)

          Comment


          • #35
            The Depth Acceleration unit and Depth Cache deals with the Z-buffer and managing access to the Z-buffer in an efficient way. This area includes logic to perform fast Z clears and also sophisticated logic to queue up Z-reads and Z-writes so that they are always done in burst access. And more generally, while Parhelia-512 has a great deal of raw memory bandwidth, it is an intelligent memory controller whose architecture allows granular access of data and also optimizes the access from the intensity, depth, fragment and texture buffers through multiple independent sub-controllers.
            The overall architecture of the entire chip is extremely complex with various optimization techniques. Some topline optimizations are the inclusion of fast Z clears and multiple large caches to hide page breaks and to maximize burst efficiency. If you look on the chip block diagram you will see that the depth unit, Fragment AA unit, pixel unit, texture units and the display units all interact with the 512-bit Memory controller array. Each of these sub-units has specific logic to optimize memory efficiency, and the memory controller array itself then arbitrates between all of the different requests sent by these different units. There are multiple independent controllers in this array and they can access different information simultaneously.
            And suddenly I realize that all of my initial disappointment with Parhelia is gone. Technology is beautiful. I may weep openly.

            Comment


            • #36
              Even though most of this is pure conjecture (well, for most of us, since a few already know more), the chip is looking more and more impressive all the time.
              "..so much for subtlety.."

              System specs:
              Gainward Ti4600
              AMD Athlon XP2100+ (o.c. to 1845MHz)

              Comment


              • #37
                hey Snake-Eyes
                yeah---too many threads for me to keep up with as it's a busy week here & I'm getting ready to move.

                Took me several reads of the same to get through the jargon & see the technical poetry beneath too The Extreme tech article touched briefly on this as well (citing an email exchange--I guess this wasn't part of the official presentation) and they said something like 16 independent memory sub-controllers.

                I think I'm in love...

                ---e
                Iwill KK266-R
                Athlon Tbird 1GHz AYHJAR oc'd to 1.5 GHz
                128 megs Corsair PC133
                Windows 98 SE
                Matrox G400 MAX DH 32mb
                -----------------------------------

                Comment


                • #38
                  Those memory controllers might turn out to be the strongest feature of the card, especially in normally bandwidth demanding situations. This is one reason I'm guessing that the card will have a steadier framerate than most others available now, whether or not it manages a higher maximum framerate (less difference between lows and highs, if it can manage the memory properly).
                  "..so much for subtlety.."

                  System specs:
                  Gainward Ti4600
                  AMD Athlon XP2100+ (o.c. to 1845MHz)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Also, I don't think a lot of people realize but my G400 had much better steadier frame rates than my Radeon ever did. UT was much smoother with my G400 than my Radeon. I was disappointed by this.

                    Dave
                    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Regarding the lack of faith...

                      When the announcement of the Parhelia chipset finally became official, I was eager to read how the "real experts" would interpret these specifications. After having read both previews over at Tom's and AnandTech, I was virtually stunned as to the apparent lack of faith in Matrox and some of the specifications of the Parhelia chipset. Or am I just being "paranoid"?!

                      Being a skeptic of (p)reviews in general and always getting several opinions on a hardware matter, I also visited FiringSquad who tend to make excellent (p)reviews. This time is no exception, they have made a very good preview of the Parhelia chipset AND with much more enthusiasm carried towards Matrox than previously mentioned sites.

                      So, if you haven't read it, then what are you waiting for?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Helevitia
                        Also, I don't think a lot of people realize but my G400 had much better steadier frame rates than my Radeon ever did. UT was much smoother with my G400 than my Radeon. I was disappointed by this.

                        Dave
                        That is so true. I'm not sure if I can say it's smoother than my GF4 is, but then again, I'm artificially limiting the GF to my refresh rate, after having tweaked it so that my minimum framerate is at or very close to the refresh. But I know that without vsync enabled, the Matrox had the most consistent framerate in UT, in just about all situations (unfortunately, those rocket spamfests we like so much as MUs was one of the exceptions, lol).
                        "..so much for subtlety.."

                        System specs:
                        Gainward Ti4600
                        AMD Athlon XP2100+ (o.c. to 1845MHz)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Cryomenace, the first problem is that you believe that these guy are experts... they most certainly are NOT!

                          Anand is a great writer/editor and Tom... well as far as most around here are concerned he's a putz. Both are bought traded and whored out to the highest bidder for which most of their reviews are biased against any manufactures part that doesn't contribute directly to their pocket.
                          "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

                          "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

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                          • #43
                            Hey Greebe, let's setup a web site and review hardware ourselves

                            We'll acurately and properly review Parhelia and show those guys how things are done

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Anand is a great writer/editor and Tom... well as far as most around here are
                              concerned he's a putz. Both are bought traded and whored out to the highest bidder for which most of their reviews are biased against any manufactures part that doesn't contribute directly to their pocket.
                              dead right they are hardware HOs 8D


                              one sour pickle
                              Better to let one think you are a fool, than speak and prove it


                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Elie
                                Hey Greebe, let's setup a web site and review hardware ourselves

                                We'll acurately and properly review Parhelia and show those guys how things are done
                                But then you would probably be matrox biased and basically stoop to their level...

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