The Matrix Reloaded

[Drizzt]

I hate you all!

[Wombat]

And that's why there's Enter the Matrix. The game itself is hardly worth playing, and was rushed to market. But, it has important story elements.

[omegaRED]

OT: Wombat, did you work out your problems with the CPU?

[Topha]

-It says the first One was born when the Matrix was created, which maybe means that he was the first human born in the matrix?

-I dont think the agents know about the architects plan, probably to keep their programs more simple (search & destroy, basically). Mr. Smith maybe an exception. Thats why the oracle has to hide from them.

-Maybe the architect tricked Neo into going into the wrong door? They seem to have tricked him into a lot of other stuff

-Maybe it plays much farther in the future than we (Morpheus) thought?

-Why did't the Machines find a way to let the sun shine again

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Gurm
Ok, I just had some SERIOUS breakthrough thoughts about this...

I think that EVERYTHING the Architect is saying has to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.

Let's address a few points:

1. The Matrix is, currently, in an indeterminate year around the turn of the century.

The architect says that there have been five previous "one"s. Morpheus says that Zion was founded 150 years ago. If Zion was founded by the last "one", quick math says that this has been going on for 900 years. So what, did the Matrix get reset to the year 1100? If so, how did anyone gain self-awareness of the Matrix, since all those who get out seem to be hackers? Or does the Matrix reset each time the "one" reintegrates? If so, that would confuse a LOT of people, and lead to even more people becoming aware of the Matrix. That's no good. Either way, it doesn't seem plausible.

2. The agents kill the keymaker.

If this has happened 5 times before... do they keep resurrecting the keymaker?

3. The Oracle is hiding out from the agents.

This doesn't make much sense no matter how you look at it.

4. Agent Smith "downloads" himself into a human.

I would think that this is forbidden. But the agents know all about Zion, or at least Smith does. His whole focus in the first movie was to get the access codes to the Zion mainframe! Additionally, he makes a deal with Cipher to reinsert him into the Matrix, and wipe his memory so he won't remember anything about the outside world... and to then modify the Matrix to make Cipher someone important. Now maybe he was lying, or maybe the agents are working more closely with the architect than you might otherwise think.

5. Neo "zaps" the sentinels.

I don't get this. It doesn't fit with any scenario. I'm forced to accept the POSSIBILITY that they are in another Matrix, but also... see, it just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. It makes sense that the last guy who could change the Matrix... was the previous "one". And that it was he who freed the first Zionites. But the timeline doesn't work. It's not like time runs more slowly in the Matrix...

ARGH! Brain hurt now.

- Gurm

Originally posted by Gurm
The Oracle is puzzling. At first, you want to think "no, she wasn't helping". But the only reason you have to think that is what the Architect tells you, and I think the Architect is lying.

Regardless of whether there is a second Matrix, the Architect is full of it.

Neo is ALSO precognitive... which is interesting. I think Neo has ESP. After all, this IS several hundred years in the future. It could easily be the case that humans have developed ESP. Plus, who KNOWS what the machines' tinkering with our brains did to us as a species?

- Gurm

Yup, agree with Gurm
Especialy that the architect is a lying bastard

Originally posted by Ssin
Gurm :
- I don't think the Architect is lying. He never spoke about the Oracle. He just said 'Oh please', when Neo spoke her name.

- Might be that in fact the One is another program one meant to overtake a human body. And effectively one made by humans to take control over the Matrix.

No way!

- One big question is that at least 2 "programs" know of there being previous One's. The Architect and the Merovingien. The others we don't know for sure.

he Architect is definitly NOT a former "One"
Its also daubtfull that the Merovingien is a former "One"

- Some programs like the way the Matrix is and don't want it to be changed. Exemple : The Merovingien keeps the KeyMaker, he doesn't want the matrix to change.

Merovingien probably just want to keep his "toy"

- The Oracle might be just a big log file. She just reads what happened to the other One's so she's just telling Neo what the others did, not what he has to do...

Ever heard of branch prediction in CPU's?
She could be the hyper advanced version

Originally posted by Drizzt
I hate you all!

[Ajax]

If the program(s) are able to change where Neo goes (is/was, whatever) when he opens doors, then maybe the Architect could make Neo go where he wanted him to, no matter which door Neo went through. At that point when Neo thought he was going back into the Matrix to save Trinity, maybe the Architect put him into another simulation when he walked through the door. If so, that would explain why he could "sense" the sentinals for what seems like the first time.
One thing is for sure, the authors made a story with many possibilities to think about. IF they can pull it off, it will be one of the greatest stories in cinema history... if not then it will really suck.

[Ssin]

Originally posted by Technoid
[B]

The Architect is definitly NOT a former "One"
Its also daubtfull that the Merovingien is a former "One"

I never said that the architect was a former one. I once spoked the possibility that the Merovingien was one.
I'm just refering to what Neo said when inside the room with the Architect : "There's only two possibilities, either no one told me or no one knows". Just that SOMEbody know. Architect knows AND Merovingien knows since he said "Mark my words boy, mark them well : I've survived the ones like you before..." (actually not the exact words, but something like that). So the guy knows what's going to happen and he doesn't want it.

I have the feeling that in some ways the Merovingien was actually trying to avoid the "reloading" of the Matrix by keeping the KeyMaker for himself and not letting Neo even reach him. Thus they were working the same way without knowing it.

[Drizzt]

The key-word in Matrix 2 is "evolution".
And as I said a few messages before, I'm sure that a lot of Matrix Reloaded has been inspired by the Hyperion saga by Dan Simmons.

And, I hate you all because I can't discuss too much here...because it could take a week to write such a post in english

[Wombat]

There's also a scene in "Enter the Matrix" where a bum comes up to Niobe and says "72 hours. That's how long Zion lasted last time."
"Who are you?"
"Me? I'm just a spectator."

[leech]

My thinking is that Neo is just a program (sorry if someone said this already, since I skipped some of the posts in this HUGE thread) And that the other "Ones" looked just like him (as per the evidance of all the Neos in the TVs behind him that give their various reactions. Only other thought is that all other permutations of Neo's reactions are what are displayed on the TVs). Wether that program has a physical body or not is irrelivant to the Machines. Think of it this way, each of our bodies are in essance a computer system. Our brains themselves work as information storage systems.

As far as the date goes, Morpheus says in the first one that the year is probably closer to 2199, and that Neo believes that the year is 1999. And also mentions that Zion has been fighting the war for the past 100 years. The problem with this of course is that the Architect states that this is the 6th anomaly. So if we say that Zion lasts 100 years per anomaly, and if the 'real world' is 2199, then the actual year in the REALLY real world, would be 2799 (which I think is where some article which was linked here said the year was, or near enough.) Of course this is assuming that there are indeed two Matrices. Now think about this, in the first movie, Agent Smith is trying to break free of "this prison, this.... zoo." but how would he break free if he was just a program inside with no real body outside.... unless of course he was indeed a Sentinel. (I had thought of this before Reloaded was out.) But if this is a second Matrix, then he's only going from one Zoo/Prison to another. Maybe he prefers to fly around, who knows. But on the other hand if it weren't a second Matrix, Neo stealing some of his code (And Smith stealing some of his) could allow Neo to 'hack' the Sentinels. The problem with this though, is the fact that any other time before he spoke with the Architect, he wasn't able to sense them.

For those of you who've seen the Second Renaissance Animatrix shows, the humans tried to wipe out the Machine's city of 01 with Nuclear weapons...... Well considering Nuclear explosions create EMP waves, it should have destroyed all the Machines. Yet it did not, so that's why mankind blackened the sky, to try to take away their power source.

Now flash foward to The Matrix, they used EMP to short out all the Sentinels. So in the past, before the Matrix was created, they had EMP protection, yet they don't have it in the far future? (Assuming an average of 100 years per Zion/Anomaly it'd have to be about 600 years later.) Is this a mistake on the part of the writers, or could this be more evidence supporting a second Matrix. With the sole purpose of convincing those that wouldn't accept the 1990's Matrix that there was indeed a war going on that was fightable.

Also more thought to support it. These AI's are top notch, you really think it would have taken them this long to figure out that they can use little bombs to throw at the ships to kill them, rather than flying at them and getting zapped?

Which brings me to The Final Flight of the Osiris. The ship in that one has many guns on it, yet in The Matrix, Morpheus tells Neo that EMP is the only weapon they have againt the machines.

Oh well, rant over. It'll be interesting to see Revolutions, that's for sure.

Leech

[Ajax]

I found this article that some may enjoy.

Sorry Leech, if what the architect says has any truth to it, then Neo is not a program :

...you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not.

But as some have pointed out, why should we trust the Architect?

[High_Jumbllama]

Originally posted by Ajax
I found this article that some may enjoy.

Sorry Leech, if what the architect says has any truth to it, then Neo is not a program :


But as some have pointed out, why should we trust the Architect?

Damn, what a mindful.

[leech]

Why apologize, I'm still right, for I already stated that Neo, while human, is a program. The human body can act just the same as a computer. Just as Morpheus says in the first movie, "you think that chair you're touching is real?" It's all just electrical signals sent to the brain. Yes, the sky really is purple. "It's the smell.... if there is such a thing." If you think in the terms of everything that your mind does as a program, then basically we are all just programs. But in Neo's case he was designed to be the One from the beginning. His 'Fate' so to speak was already written.

According to the Sumerians, Fate is already written, it's going to happen whether we like it or not. Destiny on the other hand will probably eventually happen, but you have to work towards the goal.

So, with this in mind, it was Destiny for Neo to reach the Source, but it was Fate that made him choose the door. As the Architect said, "we already know which choice you're going to make" Even though Neo is 'the One' doesn't mean he has quite gathered everything that is going on. Much like the people in this forum

Leech

[Gurm]

My problem is with the overall temporal layout of the Matrix. If it has been 600 years ... umm ... did they start the Matrix out in the year 1400? The current "Matrix Year" is 1999. 100 Years ago, the "Matrix Year" was 1899. Now, the Merovingian is obviously old. So is Persephone, and he keeps vampires as bodyguards... "they are from an older version of the Matrix". So, ok maybe yeah the Matrix has been around for a thousand years, and everything from the Dark Ages forward was all simulation. Explains a lot of supernatural phenomena, huh?

- Gurm

[Gurm]

And to ADD to that...

If the first "one" escaped from the Matrix 600-1000 years ago... he would HAVE to have been helped by the machines! Because he would have known NOTHING about technology! Think about THAT one for a minute. Where did people from the Dark Ages learn to hack? The machines HAVE to have been helping.

Or... maybe the brothers Warchawski just ****ed up the timeline.

I think it's 50/50.

- Gurm