The Matrix Reloaded

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Gurm

I fail to grasp this. Please rephrase it or explain.

The first film focused on the concept that everything we see is not real (or is it "un-necessary").
The reason for Neo fail to deactivate Matrix is that he is locked to the mental state of mind where nothing is possible and human has limits.
Do you remember the first film, the child that in the Oracle house was folding the spoon?

He says to Neo "Do not try to bend the spoon.
That's impossible. Instead, realize the truth -- that there is no spoon --
and that it is yourself that is bending."

So you think that they're looping it? The way the FIRST film runs, you think that the Matrix has been around for only 100 years or so, and that they're re-running the 20th century over and over or some such. But with the "earlier version of the Matrix" comments, the Merovingian and the vampires and ghosts... I'm thinking they started it MUCH earlier. If it's been running for 1000 years, they probably started it at 1000 A.D.

This is the "problem" you have with it (take no offense, ok? )
Who said that the Matrix is limited to human speed? If they want, they can restart Matrix and then fast forward the system to whenever they need. Or, they can just re-program the humans brain with the needed memories.

As for the article being 50% bullshit... I think that some of his ideas about Christianity, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. are off-target. But the first film was ALL about Gnostic philosophy.

I had noticed it, and that is why I think that article is bullshit. If the first film was so perfectly tighted with Gnostic philosophy, that I don't think that to explain the second there is the need to use 10-20 different religions...

[Gurm]

No. The Matrix DOES run at "human" speed, the timeline of the films supports that.

As for the machines just "reprogramming" the human brain occasionally, I get the impression that doing so would lead to MORE people rejecting the reality of the Matrix, not less... therefore it would be contrary to their goals.

I seriously think they started back thousands of years. That's what I think.

- Gurm

[Wulfman]

Originally posted by Gurm
No. The Matrix DOES run at "human" speed, the timeline of the films supports that.

As for the machines just "reprogramming" the human brain occasionally, I get the impression that doing so would lead to MORE people rejecting the reality of the Matrix, not less... therefore it would be contrary to their goals.

I seriously think they started back thousands of years. That's what I think.

- Gurm

does that make sense? the previous incarnations of the one looked all like neo (could be artistic freedom of course, or just showing variations of behaviour already experienced by the architect). I highly doubt that people (the previous ones) from the time of persephone or the merowinger would wear the same clothes as neo.

mfg
wulfman

[Topha]

Or it all plays much farther in the future than one is made to believe, but I think I already said that

[Gurm]

I don't know what the projections up on the screens were. They weren't previous Ones, or at least I don't think they were. I think they were either projections on what the Architect THOUGHT Neo was thinking, or maybe it's what Neo really WAS thinking.

- Gurm

[GT98]

Hmm well if you dont know theres a "real world" out there how can you reject something that you have no idea exisits?

As for the Early start, Why would the machines let Humans recreate history from 1000 AD when it would be easier to have them in a set time period (late 20th centery) to control them?

I guess we'll all find out most of the answers in November so we dont have to wait 4 yrs again lol

[Wombat]

One reason to have a 20th century Matrix: population. 6 billion people, and a low mortality rate. Going back even a few hundred years would drastically reduce the population, and you'd keep losing them to the plague and other diseases.

[leech]

Actually on the discussion of whether or not the Matrix HAS to go along with the proper flow of time to the people inside..... read the short stories on www.whatisthematrix.com You'll need to go under the Mainframe. The little squares on there all select different parts of the site. The first square is Comics. Go to that one and read the "Goliath" story. It's the top one on the right hand column. Very cool story. I've only read that one and the comic strip of the guy who tries to harvest wheat in the 'real' world.

I think at the least the current Matrix is in 1999, just because they used Vampires as Agents in the old Matrices, doesn't mean that those old Matrices were in 1000AD. Granted there would be more superstitious people that would probably believe in vampires, but then again, there are people who believe in Vampires/werewolves/ghosts now.

I just liked killing the Vamps in the game, that was cool

It is interesting to note that there is a secret society called the Prior de Sion, that believes that they know who the descendants of Christ is. And that basically goes into the origins of Zion itself.... Interesting, eh?

Leech

[Gurm]

I concur with your points. However, the fact remains that we have an ancient frenchman (800-ish years old), vampires, etc.

Besides, how would you keep everyone perpetually in 1999? You wouldn't. You couldn't. It would be horribly inefficient to continually reprogram the human mind.

PLUS... in the first movie it talks about how people are born, live their lives, grow old, and die... all in the simulation. That their entire lives are part of the simulation, not just implanted memories.

The question is how far back does it go, and when do they start it over? Obviously from the Merovingian and the vampires, we see that it goes back at least a few hundred years...

- Gurm

[Gurm]

Ok, just read "Goliath".

Problem is that a LOT of that doesn't fit in with the rest of the Matrix movies.

I don't think it's necessarily supposed to. These are, after all, fan-submitted pieces.

True, there's no reason they COULDN'T run the Matrix in accelerated mode. But whenever someone is jacked in - in the movies at least - the operators are watching in realtime.

- Gurm

[leech]

Ok, let me try to clarify the point. They have already stated that this is the 6th revision. This current iteration of the Matrix takes place around our current time line, hence Agents are something more recognizeable, like FBI/CIA/NSA/MIB whatever you want to think of them as. Now it could very well be that the Machines have had programs for various time frames.

But how did you get to the conclusion that the Merovingian was 800-ish. The only thing that even clues in at all how old he is, is that he tells Neo that he's survived his predecessors.

It IS just a simulation. Think about it, in the first one, Neo, after being awoken to the 'real' world, goes back into the Matrix to see the Oracle and they drive by a chinese restraunt and he says, "I used to eat there, they had good noodles." Then he and Trinity go on to discuss how it was all an illusion and that he never really had eaten any noodles.

Think about it, ever have a day at work that just seems to drag on and on, then you'll have days that'll go by fairly quickly. Either due to boredom at work, or too many things going on, either way it can 'lengthen' the feel of the day.

Also think about this, some people DO live their lives in a simulation. Like playing Ultima Online, or Everquest. With some people, that's about all they do.

@Wombat Yes, at least one of the Animatrix episodes (Matriculated, where they try to get the Machines to join the rebels) was created by the same one who did Aeon Flux, Peter Chung, that was a killer show )

Leech

[leech]

Originally posted by Gurm
Ok, just read "Goliath".

Problem is that a LOT of that doesn't fit in with the rest of the Matrix movies.

I don't think it's necessarily supposed to. These are, after all, fan-submitted pieces.

True, there's no reason they COULDN'T run the Matrix in accelerated mode. But whenever someone is jacked in - in the movies at least - the operators are watching in realtime.

- Gurm

Which kind of points in favor of the 2nd Matrix theory.....

Think about this.... when you play an MMORPG, generally they don't run in real time....

Leech

[leech]

On another note, if you beat the game, it shows/explains how the Oracle is different. You have to beat Seraph.

Leech

[Gurm]

Originally posted by leech
Ok, let me try to clarify the point. They have already stated that this is the 6th revision. This current iteration of the Matrix takes place around our current time line, hence Agents are something more recognizeable, like FBI/CIA/NSA/MIB whatever you want to think of them as. Now it could very well be that the Machines have had programs for various time frames.

Of course.

But how did you get to the conclusion that the Merovingian was 800-ish. The only thing that even clues in at all how old he is, is that he tells Neo that he's survived his predecessors.

*ahem*



Please note the dates of their rules. I was being generous, and frankly (pun intended) my memory of ancient rulers of Gaul is sketchy. It's been YEARS since I delved into pre-darkages European history. The Merovingian is closer to 1500 !!! years old!

That stretches things further than I thought, but the Architect DID say that he preferred to think about it in terms of "time since the emergence of the one" or some such... some time periods are not conducive to the emergence of the One. Others are.

It IS just a simulation. Think about it, in the first one, Neo, after being awoken to the 'real' world, goes back into the Matrix to see the Oracle and they drive by a chinese restraunt and he says, "I used to eat there, they had good noodles." Then he and Trinity go on to discuss how it was all an illusion and that he never really had eaten any noodles.

Which tells us nothing about the passage of time.

Think about it, ever have a day at work that just seems to drag on and on, then you'll have days that'll go by fairly quickly. Either due to boredom at work, or too many things going on, either way it can 'lengthen' the feel of the day.

I have no doubt that the machines CAN do it. The problem is that in doing so it would make the Matrix seem more "unreal". Every time they mucked with the passage of time it would create instabilities, so they would WANT to keep it running mostly at a normal clip most of the time. You don't want a boatload of people dying early, or living too long... you know!

- Gurm

[Wulfman]

why does the name "merowinger" make you believe he is really one of the ancient rulers?

maybe he isn't even french.. I'm sure you will remember why he speaks french at all.
the meme "frenchmen = bad boy" is quite widespread.

mfg
wulfman