Legal Advice.

[Jammrock]

I decided to help a carpool buddy this morning by trailing him to the car dealership for repairs and then driving him to work. No big deal, until I got pulled over for an illegal U-turn.

The car dealership is located on a frontage road of the highway. You get to the frontage road off of a major road where the highway exit/entrance ramps are. Getting to the frontage road is an easy right hand turn and you're there; however, getting back to the highway is a chore, especially for people like me who do not know the area.

I tried to get back on to the highway from the way I came, but the road is blocked so you can only turn right. All of the intersections for the next km are blocked by no U-turn signs, including the one I thought didn't have a no U-turn sign, namely an intersection with a left turn light and lane. The left turn light has two signs next to it on the post, one says 'no turn onf red' the other a no left turn for trucks. The no U-turn sign is apparently on the median below. And since I was looking for it, it wasn't very noticable.

That and it was dark and foggy this morning.

So I asked the officer how I was supposed to get back on the highway from the car dealerships and he told me some side roads I was supposed to take Some unmarked side roads mind you. That people like me wouldn't have a freak'n clue to take.

Now my question. If I gather picture evidence of the unmarked back roads, the small no U-turn sign that's posted away from teh left turn light and the acoompanying signs, plus bring in to play the fact that it is illegal to use private property to make U-turns or bypass traffic, do you think I can get off on entrapment? After all, if they do clearly mark a legal, alternate route for out-of-towners like me to take, I would have no way of knowing any legal route to get back to the highway. Therefore they are forcing me to take unknown roads or make an illegal traffic manuver.

Whadda think?

Jammrock

[Kruzin]

You only have one chance. If you go to court and the cop doesn't show up.
Logic and reasoning don't work in traffic court. No matter how right you may be, if the sign is posted, the judge will nail you.
You may be able to plea out with the DA to a lesser infraction, but don't count on it...

[Brian Ellis]

No way! Pay your fine like a good boy: it'll cost you a lot less than arguing the case and losing, which you are almost sure to do.

[az]

In germany, you could win this case, if the sign was REALLY hard to see.

AZ

[TransformX]

Originally posted by az
In germany, you could win this case, if the sign was REALLY hard to see.

AZ

Same here (in Israel).
If you have pictures to prove your case - that is.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Kruzin
...You may be able to plea out with the DA to a lesser infraction...

What would be a lesser infraction than a bad u-turn?
That already sounds bottom-of-the-barrel.


Here, if you take your pictures and act nice & polite in court, even if you are convicted the judge is likely to reduce your fine.

Good Luck
Chuck

[Jammrock]

I plan on taking pictures. I really don't feel like paying this fine. Plus the fine is $80 and moving violation. It's worth the day in court, IMO. I just want opinions on my chance of winning and advice on how I might win it.

Where is Doc when you need him?

Jammrock

[Kruzin]

Your chance of winning is slim to none.
You'll end up not only paying the fine, but also court costs, plus your wasted time.
You have a better chance of pleaing down to defective vehicle or some other non-moving violation (if you have a good driving record).

[cjolley]

Winning? VERY unlikely.
Reduced Fine? maybe.

Traffic Court is to Court what Pewter is to Silver.

Polish it any way you want, it ain't gonna shine.

chuck

[the main lobe]

I had a similar situation when making a wrong turn down a one way road in the middle of a snow storm. Didn't anymore make the turn when I got pulled over ( I wasn't even 20ft. down the road yet!) I got the ticket, then I went to the court to fight it with a hand drawn map of the intersection. The officer admitted that maybe I couldn't see the sign across the street on the opposite side of the road, but he then invented a new sign that he claimed I should've seen. I checked, it wasn't there. I didn't have proof on hand and I wasn't planning on coming back to the state I got the ticket in for several months to file an appeal. I paid my ticket and court costs, but at least it got me out of traffic school. Same costs in money as the court costs but takes less time to go to court than traffic school.

You won't win if you go to court unless the officer doesn't show up. However, pleading not guilty or guilty in court can save you from traffic school, and your insurance company shouldn't find out about the ticket.
This was in Dekalb, IL by the way.

[Dr Mordrid]

Pay the ticket. In traffic court even if you win you lose.

A few years back when, on approaching a stop sign, a wheel cylinders seak broke in the left rear of our van. I was able to stop using the emergency brake, but with the nose of the van about 3 feet past the sign.

Even though I did not enter the crossing street and the incident was caused by a mechanical failure I got a ticket for running the stop sign

I went to court with the repair receipt, photos of a 30 foot long trail of brake fluid on the street and even a receipt showing that a local garage had replaced that same wheel cylinder just a few weeks earlier.

The magistrate dismissed the $80 ticket, but then chaged me $100 in court costs because I fought the ticket

The reason for these kinds of shenanigans: the court splits the proceeds with the city, making them a primary revenue source quoted when the time comes to re-negotiate salaries etc.

Dr. Mordrid

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by cjolley
What would be a lesser infraction than a bad u-turn?

Sorry, but actually it's one of the worst.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Drizzt
Sorry, but actually it's one of the worst.

I had no idea.
chuck

[KvHagedorn]

The lesson: we are almost always punished for our kindnesses. Make your buddy pay the ticket or throw him out of the carpool.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
The lesson: we are almost always punished for our kindnesses. Make your buddy pay the ticket or throw him out of the carpool.

Just about guaranteed to make Jammrock's car break down the next day.
chuck