Lethal Attraction

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by Brian R.
Zokes, I hope you were kidding...

Hehe, stole it from Chris Rock's comedy routine, except changed the wording.

Edit: sp

[Brian R.]

Just when you thought this discussion might stay out of the temp forum...

[spadnos]

Yeah - it's a lot easier to make bullets than it is to make guns. (I've made bullets, but haven't gotten to the point of making guns yet).

As cjolley said, the right to bear arms is there to prevent the people from being screwed by the government, not to protect themselves from outlaws (though that happens as well). The idea was that if the government got too restrictive or opressive, then the citizens should have the power to revolt, and change it. Based on that premise, it should be legal for individuals to own automatic weapons, tanks, fighter planes, etc.

Of course, that's silly. There needs to be some happy medium between the right to protect yourself from "bad people", and the need to out-gun the army.

The problem with making guns illegal is that you prevent law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves, but you don't diminish the ability for a criminal to commit armed robbery, since all they have to do is use an illegal weapon. This isn't a problem for them, because they're CRIMINALS.
(there is a similar argument against many of the "security measures" that are taken to prevent terrorism. The questions they ask at the airport - "did you pack your bags", "is there anything dangerous in your bags", well - duh!, if I'm a terrorist, I'll give you the answers you want to hear, not the truth...)

- Steve

[Paddy]

Come on KvH I dont want any flaming

The program suggested that if guns were more difficult to come buy then less people would have them, and there would be less gun crime.

Your right about a gun amnesty. Only the good guys would hand in their weapons. But if i were a crook, i'd want a gun because i know that there is a reasonable chance that the poor sod i'm about to mug also has one. This guy on the program who wanted to be able to 'defend his family' had an AK47!!!!!!!!

[GNEP]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Britain is one of those places where only outlaws own guns.. when one breaks into your home to kill you and your kids with one, you can run at him with your sword while he blows you away. And he probably gets to sue your estate for resisting anyhow (after he does his 2 years for the mass murder of your family, of course.)

Sword? You think they are legal here? Kitchen knife maybe...

To be quite honest the feeling I have always had living in the UK, is that the risk of someone breaking into your house with a gun is way way less than the risk of an accident with a gun if you kept one in the house. And that is pretty low.

When I lived in a particularly dodgy part of London (Clapton in Hackney, home of the infamous "murder mile") even then the risk of me ever getting shot was only through crossfire from gang/drug related shooting. And would anyone honestly think that carrying a gun around would have reduced my risk? Even wandering home (drunk) late at night never felt threatened. Would only have been a target were I in a gang or involved in drug dealing somehow. Both of which are pretty unlikely. So as an "innocent" bystander I have never ever felt the need to keep a gun for self defense, and nor has anyone I know. (Don't know any reprobate youths )

I do own a gun however - I was given my great-grandfather's shotgun a few years back. It stays on the farm in Yorkshire under my father's license with 2 other shotguns and an air rifle, and gets an outing from the cabinet maybe once a year for a bit of clay-pigeon shooting. I am an awful shot btw. Maybe a p(h)easant shoot once in a blue moon as well I suppose.

I guess it's a cultural thing, again highlighting that what applies from our own direct experiences wherever we are from doesn't export particularly well...

[KvHagedorn]

You're right.. it is a cultural thing. And it isn't the American/British culture schism either. It's the different cultures within America. When you talk about gun violence here, it isn't the normal upstanding members of the NRA that are responsible for it.. it's the thugs and wanna-be thugs whose mentality is coming from a totally different place.

[High_Jumbllama]

Is this suspect statistic(all of them are) per capita or per country?

[dshumake]

If you take the position that a "well regulated milita" is an assortment of citizens who are able to fight against oppression by the government, then it is required that citizens have guns and know how to use them.

This is fine as far as small arms are considered, but breaks down when there are limits placed upon citizens to buy, unhindered, any weapon or accessory, that is available to a government financed military.

The difficulties that arise from this position are many. The question is whether freedom from tyranny is what the american people want. From my perspective, people in the USA are giving up freedoms without gaining an appreciable amount of anything else.

dshumake

Originally posted by cjolley
Well, I'm a gun owner (1 22 rifle), who is not against gun control and would, on balance, be considered a liberal.

Here is my 2 cents:

1, The founding fathers put the gun part of the second amendment in to protect "the people (by which they meant the states) from the power of an out of control federal government.
But, there could not be an armed rebelion in the US anymore because the federal military is just way too powerfull to be defeated by small arms.
So that point is moot.

2, It has become a part of our culture. You'ed have just as much luck asking Americans to give up thier cars.
So why talk about it?

Chuck

[Jammrock]

Originally posted by Paddy
@Jammrock: The program showd a clip of Clinton giving a speach on the need for gun control. The quote about America 'having 12 times more gun crime ....' came from him, not some random bloke.

He's worse than some random bloke. He's one of the greatest spin doctors of political history.

[KvHagedorn]

http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/red_flags.cfm?issue_type=crime

[KRSESQ]

nuf said

[Paddy]

KRSESQ: Sorry mate, I was just curious as to what people thought. I'd like to keep this out of the Temp forum

From that site KvH:

So have i got this right?

"Not everyone in America wants or has a gun.

Most people this there are too many about and they are afraid that it is too easy for criminals to get hold of one.

However most people want the right to have one."

I can appreciate that in some rural areas to may be necessary to have either some degree of protection, for you or your livestock, from the wildlife. Why on earth does this mean that some people can go out and by an AK47??? This 'I want a gun because he has one' is crazy logic! What next? Terrorists have mortars and explosives so should we stockpile them in case we need to defend our selves????

The simple fact is that firearms are largly illegal here. As a result there are fewer guns on the street and fewer gun related problems. I rarely see gun shot wounds at work although I'll admit it is on the increase.

I was just interested in your opinions as of course that program will be editied

[Fluff]

'Guns dont kill people rappers do'

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/home.nsf/webpages/goldielookinchainx20x07x04

there is a video of the song on there too...

[GNEP]

Hehe - GLC are great

[Fluff]

Speaking about crime etc.. What are peoples views on legalising drugs , e.g. heroin, cocaine, speed, mdma. Having some sort of ID system, and pricing them so low that it is pointless dealers selling them. Plus some sort of register negating health care for the users, with say a 1 year get clean and get put back on the health service. They should do that with tobacco on the NHS, if they come in with a smoking related problem offer them no health care till thay have stopped smoking for 6 months.