Saddam to sue over prison photos

[xortam]

... A large precentage of the class never relized how often Fallacies are used everyday or even by themselves....

Oh quit being a dildo!

[schmosef]

Are you on drugs or something?

Sometimes I wish I were because if I stopped self-medicating the world around me might fall back into place and start to make sense.

In my travels, I'm regularly reminded (as if I didn't already know) that there are indeed legitimate forms of criticism of Israel and that such criticism does not automatically constitute antisemitism.

The people who like to remind me of this tend to be Muslim. Funny ("hmm", not "ha ha") how they don't ever think that there's any place for legitimate criticism of Islam.

I quoted Robert Spencer's summary of his dealings with Islamic apologists for a reason. The conversations always ends like this:

Islamic apologist: You are ignorant. I am not going to speak with you about this any more.

[schmosef]

I just finished up an online course on Critical Thinking and Fallacies. A large precentage of the class never relized how often Fallacies are used everyday or even by themselves....

I took an intro to Logic and Philosophy course in University.

I found the section on logical fallacies very informative. I've always wanted to go back and reread the textbook chapters covering that. I think you might have just given me the impetus to do so.

[GT98]

I took an intro to Logic and Philosophy course in University.

I found the section on logical fallacies very informative. I've always wanted to go back and reread the textbook chapters covering that. I think you might have just given me the impetus to do so.

I've had two courses on Logic and Philosphy and both where very good and very informative. I wish they teach it grade school or high school. Then maybe there wouldnt be as many "sheep" out there as there is now.

[schmosef]

Who's on drugs? Me or this guy?

from adnkronos international:

Tehran, 27 May (AKI) - Hojatolislam Gholam Reza Hasani, a representative of Iran's supreme spiritual leader, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, in Iranian Azerbaijan, has no doubts as to who to vote for in the next presidential elections on 17 June. "You need to vote for Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani," said Hasani. "This way we will finally be able to have for ourselves the atomic bomb to fairly stand up to Israeli weapons," said Hasani.

"Freedom, democracy and stupidities of this type cannot be carried over to any part, and these concepts are out of sync with the principles of Islam," said Hasani, the imam who led Friday prayers in the main city of western Iranian Azerbaijian.

"Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don't see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations."

Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand? Freedom, demcocracy and other such stupidities are not part of Islam?

What's this guy's email address? I have a flash presentation to send him.

Adis, you don't have to openly debate me. But please tell me why you think I might be on drugs. I'm asking in all seriousness. I'm trying to understand your perspective.

[Gurm]

I think we need more SMITING.

Dig up the damn Ark of the Covenant, and use it to SMITE some people. I don't even care who - radical Islamists might be high on my list, but hell I'll take Somalis or the North Koreans. Just so long as someone naughty gets SMITED. Or SMOTE, or SMITTEN, or whatever.

[schmosef]

I vote we start with the Mullahs in Iran: Tehran’s Killing Fields

[Adis]

schmosef,

The only one thing I'm trying to explain you is: Islam is not bad and whole people of Iran (or any country in the world) IS NOT bad, it can not be bad.

I know many great Muslims, they are my good friends.
I have many good friends who are Catholics.
I have good friends who are Orthodox.
I have good friend who is Jewish.

Do you have any friend who is Muslim? If not then I don't know why I'm talking to you about this... it is just wasting my time...

How bad politicians can be reason for you or anybody to hate any religion or people, especially children? You talking us Islam is bad... we can tell that you hate children in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia,... only because they are Muslims?

We have only bad guys all over the world, is it too hard to understand? We have bad people who is doing bad things in the name of religions, who hates different people... so hate them, don't hate their religions because there are very good people and things in all religions, in Islam too.

Do you have read Kur'an? I have read Biblia and Kur'an and I have founded many similar things... Read it, maybe some things will be more clear to you and maybe your hatred will dissapear.

Do you think all Americans are bad like this idiot? Should I think that all Americans are bad after pictures from Abu Ghraib?


Lets try with this: Do you think Mohamed Ali was bad because he was Muslim? If you think Islam is bad at all then Mohamed Ali was terrorist? Aziz Tyson is terrorist?

World would be better place for living without extremists, fascism and people like you who is globalizing things (I don't know if you say it like this, hope you can understand---for example: you know 100 bad Muslims and then you think all Muslims and Islam is bad---wrong thinking).

Another situation: You know 100 white people who hates and killing black people... then all white people are bad, black people needs to hate us all because we are white? Or people in the whole world needs to hate Americans for discrimination of black people?

I'm repeating: There are just bad guys, not religions, not whole people of any country. I don't hate anybody, peace to all good people!

[schmosef]

Adis,

I've never said that I hate Islam. Stop putting words in my mouth. I’m serious here. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Maybe it's a language thing but if you read through what I've written previously in this thread you will see that I make a clear distinction of whom I am criticizing. I even offer to call their religion by a name other than Islam.

I've never said that all Muslims are bad, just the ones who commit atrocities in the name of Islam.

That soldier in your picture did what he did as a representative of America. His actions are against American values, and he will be punished for them, by Americans. America didn't need outside influence to decide to deal with the matter. An investigation was already under way at the time that the news hit the press.

Around the world, people are committing far worse acts in the name of Islam. They justify everything that they do with Islamic law. We in the West are told ad nauseum that Islam is actually against what they do. So my question is why are Muslims almost universally silent about it? Why don't they handle the matter internally?

Because of their rush to acquire nuclear weapons, it's not inconceivable that we'll be at war with Iran within the next few years. Wouldn't it be better if the Islamic community dealt with the Mullahs internally, without foreign influence?

If the Muslims of the world took the money and energy that they spend on PR and complaining about Western disdain for Islam and focused on internal reform, we'd all be sleeping better at night.

You still haven't answered my question. I understand that you may not feel up to debating me directly. That is fair; English is not your native tongue. I'd still like to know why it is that after reading what I've written you think I might be "on drugs".

Lastly, I'd like to hear from others reading this thread. Is there any moral equivalence to a picture of a woman being buried up to her head and about to be stoned to death to a picture of an Iraqi detainee being humiliated by an American guard? To be clearer, are the two acts equally shameful? Is one more shameful than the other? Significantly so? I'm sure you can guess my opinion. I'd like to know if I'm off base.

[schmosef]

Lastly, I'd like to hear from others reading this thread. Is there any moral equivalence to a picture of a woman being buried up to her head and about to be stoned to death to a picture of an Iraqi detainee being humiliated by an American guard? To be clearer, are the two acts equally shameful? Is one more shameful than the other? Significantly so? I'm sure you can guess my opinion. I'd like to know if I'm off base.

In an attempt to bring this thread back to where it started. Please also compare the relative shamefulness of the two pictures described above with the pictures of Saddam in his underwear.

[Adis]

I've never said that all Muslims are bad, just the ones who commit atrocities in the name of Islam.

Others doesn't do it? NOTE that I would NEVER agree with things they do and I think it is very bad for both, Muslims and Christians. But we must agree that not only Muslims doing bad things in the name of religion or race. Agree?

An investigation was already under way at the time that the news hit the press.

How do you know that? And you think Bush will say to world "our soldiers have done this terrible........" and he will show us pictures after that investigation? I don't think so.

Because of their rush to acquire nuclear weapons, it's not inconceivable that we'll be at war with Iran within the next few years. Wouldn't it be better if the Islamic community dealt with the Mullahs internally, without foreign influence?

If the Muslims of the world took the money and energy that they spend on PR and complaining about Western disdain for Islam and focused on internal reform, we'd all be sleeping better at night.

Why Bush think he is president of the whole world?
Why all his actions are against Islamic countries? Only Islamic countries get nuclear weapons?

Believe me things in the world wouldn't be bad as they are if USA/Bush wasn't start wars against Islamic countries. September 11. would never be happened, all that people wouldn't be dead... all people in Iraq wouldn't be dead... hatred between people wouldn't be like it is today. Saddam was NOT reason to destroy that country.

You still haven't answered my question. I understand that you may not feel up to debating me directly. That is fair; English is not your native tongue. I'd still like to know why it is that after reading what I've written you think I might be "on drugs".

-Why Saddam is bad? --- You really think this needs to be explained? He is simply BAD.
-Why Bush is bad? --- Ask this question people in Iraq who cried for they dead brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children,... for they destroyed houses... I'm repeating - There was other ways to stop Saddam with his idiotic ideas, he WAS NOT primary reason for war.
-Why Sharon is bad? --- Primarily for killing Palestinians, taking their land, making that Wall.


And about both pictures - disgusting.

We all must do something to stop all this shit in the world before we all die in some new big war.

[schmosef]

I promised to help a friend with something and have to leave now. Otherwise, I'd respond right away. I will respond in detail later.

Everyone else reading this thread should feel free to weigh in on the issues too.

[schmosef]

some light reading while I'm away:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/006242.php

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18108

http://blogs.csmonitor.com/my_american_experience/2005/05/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/006364.php

(The last one is the best)

[KvHagedorn]

Good links, Schmosef.. I was struck by a thought just now.. I would not be surprised to find that all this soft-social-liberal-PC-acceptance of the violent acts of Islamists as somehow justifiable in the face of minor slights encourages violence as a more accepted form of expression within our own society. It was their sympathetic attitude toward the hateful rage of black muslims and black panthers that gave license to the waves of black racism which culminated in the LA riots, the OJ trial, and films like X and Higher Learning.

Whenever a society or large societal voice (like the social liberals) accepts hatred and hateful violence as being somehow justified, they invite a lot more of it. It's just a green light for hateful people, believing that they now have the right to express their feelings violently with the tacit approval of society. Sounds a lot like Germany in the 30s.. do you understand now why I so despise social liberals?

[Gurm]

Others doesn't do it? NOTE that I would NEVER agree with things they do and I think it is very bad for both, Muslims and Christians. But we must agree that not only Muslims doing bad things in the name of religion or race. Agree?

The difference is, as schmosef has ALREADY STATED, that when Christians do horrible things, OTHER CHRISTIANS denounce them. When some right-wing nutjob with an assault rifle opens fire at an abortion clinic to "save the babies for Jesus", Christians AROUND THE WORLD immediately say that he:

1. Doesn't speak for all Christians.
2. Did a horrible thing.
3. Deserves any punishment the courts see fit to hand out.

But when Islamists fly planes into the World Trade Center, Muslims around the world DANCE IN THE GODDAMNED STREETS, say "America brought it on herself", and generally FAIL to publicly denounce their actions. That's the problem here.

Now, to be a little more reasonable, there are any number of reasons why it is this way - Islam doesn't exactly encourage open debate. Standing up and saying that the Mullahs are bad is a good way to get your family killed. So I can totally see why it doesn't happen. But this is simply one of the GIGANTIC problems with the current world implementation of Islam.

And PLEASE be aware that I've spent just as much time denouncing the current world implementation of Christianity. Ask around.

How do you know that? And you think Bush will say to world "our soldiers have done this terrible........" and he will show us pictures after that investigation? I don't think so.

Actually sadly yes. You REALLY don't understand how America works, do you? We self-police. Our most vocal critics live INSIDE THE USA. The press is almost universally anti-president, even when we have a liberal president. So yes, even after an internal investigation Bush would have been forced to make a public statement about it.

Why Bush think he is president of the whole world?

Because he's an idiot. We've beaten this to death. Why you blame American for Bush action? (sic)

Why all his actions are against Islamic countries? Only Islamic countries get nuclear weapons?

Currently, yeah pretty much. At the moment, with the exception of North Korea, only Islamic states are going for banned nuclear proliferation. I assure you that the situation in Somalia, which we have UTTERLY failed to address, would be rectified overnight if some warlord there had access to nuclear-grade material. But they don't.

And North Korea is an UGLY situation. Has been for decades. It requires more tact than just an invasion. Bush, being incapable of such tact, has chosen to try to let the diplomats handle it. Sadly, the diplomacy option will soon be exhausted and it'll have to be dealt with.

So that leaves Islamic states. Sorry. It's not a war on Islam, no matter WHAT the radicals want you to believe.

Believe me things in the world wouldn't be bad as they are if USA/Bush wasn't start wars against Islamic countries. September 11. would never be happened, all that people wouldn't be dead... all people in Iraq wouldn't be dead... hatred between people wouldn't be like it is today. Saddam was NOT reason to destroy that country.

Are you KIDDING?????

You think that we started a war and THAT caused 9/11? You're completely insane. 9/11 was causeed by OBL's anger that we would dare to even BE in Saudi Arabia. Not by a war. Not by a military action. By our mere PRESENCE on the god-forsaken piece of dirt that he calls a holy land, we so angered him that he decided to attempt to destroy us. It's not because we "start wars on Islamic countries". Get a clue. Grow up. Stop inhaling whatever vapors are leaking from the aging reactors over there in Sarajevo.

-Why Saddam is bad? --- You really think this needs to be explained? He is simply BAD.

Yep.

-Why Bush is bad? --- Ask this question people in Iraq who cried for they dead brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children,... for they destroyed houses... I'm repeating - There was other ways to stop Saddam with his idiotic ideas, he WAS NOT primary reason for war.

Ask other people in Iraq who cheer for their freedom from Saddam. Saddam killed more Iraqis every month than have died TOTAL during this military action you insist on calling a war. Look it up. Iraqis don't hate Bush. They're HAPPIER now. Some of them have lost loved ones, true - but they lost loved ones by the score if they looked wrong at Saddam. So don't preach about how liberating them made them hate us. It just isn't true. More liberal propaganda designed to make America look bad.

-Why Sharon is bad? --- Primarily for killing Palestinians, taking their land, making that Wall.

1. Retaliatory actions don't count. Israel has a publicly stated policy - you kill a couple Israeli troops, we level your building. Blow up a checkpoint, we blow up your entire city block. If the Palestinians insist on attacking them ANYWAY, it indicates that the escalation of violence doesn't work - but it doesn't make Sharon a "bad person".

2. It's not "their land". Nobody gave it to them. Let's not start YET ANOTHER argument about whether or not Israel deserves the land. At this point in time Israel OWNS THE LAND. ALL OF IT. They let the so-called "Palestinians" live there. They're not "taking" anything - in fact they've given back nearly all the land they ever "took" during the multiple land-wars that they have WON, all of which were started by Arab nations who were offended by the very existence of Jews. Please, go read a history book instead of repeating the mindless rhetoric you hear on your liberal news.

And about both pictures - disgusting.

See? That's the problem. You don't see a difference. You don't think that it's WORSE to stone a woman to death than it is to taunt someone. You think namecalling is just as bad as medeival torture. That's the problem. I've nailed it on the head - the problem is that you are a complete retard. End of story.







*** Cliff Notes: Adis is a retard who believes everything he hears on his little portable Sarajevo radio. ***