Target Iran?

[schmosef]

Umm yeah, they believe that the stories carry a grain of truth but that many were intentionally perverted over the years to alter God's message.

The Koran goes on and on about how the Jews and Christians intentionally changed His messages to them (it doesn't bother to try to explain their motivation for doing this except to say that you can't trust Jews or Christians and if you take one into your heart you're not a True Muslim) and how the Jews seemed to revel in killing the prophets he sent to them.

So that idea kind of acts like another get out of jail free card. They are free to point to the Jewish and Christian bibles as much as they like to find references that are compatible or indeed PROOVE Islam, but any references that contradict Islam are seen to have been corrupted by man.

One of the few passages in the Koran that's not supposed to be in God's voice is when it describes Jesus talking to God saying something to the effect of "Don't blame me... I never said I was your son... those idiots changed my message... and they killed me... may your wrath be upon them... they deserve what they get." Kind of puts a new spin on "what would Jesus do?"

The Koran is said to be the only work that God put his power into to prevent it being altered. That's why translations into other languages aren't considered to carry the same weight as the Arabic version. For a very long time translations were illegal. It's also why Islamic apologists think they can get away with dismissing the violence of the Koran by saying that we are quoting a "mistranslation".

...

I know that I'm coming across as quite anti-Koran and anti-Muslim. I just want to reiterate that I'm anti-Jihadist. If someone comes along and reads the Koran and only takes away a peaceful message from it then I'm all for that but don't try to tell me that there is not violence in the Koran because that's a lie. Anyone who doesn't believe me... well, they're welcome to pick up a copy and read it. Most book stores carry them, CAIR will send you one for free if you register on their web site, and you can find many browsable/searchable versions online.

All I'm asking is that if there truly is a peaceful interpretation of Islam, and if the majority of Muslims, silent though they may be, are practising it, why has a Koranic based refutation of the Jihadist ideology not manifest itself? Why is it that AQ can so easily use the Koran to justify their actions, even use it to justify the recent bombings in Jordan, and no one else can use it to refute them?

[Brian Ellis]

Mebbe there should be an international treaty on uranium processing.

All power reactors would have to use fuel from a central consortium who would process, reprocess and dispose of the waste. Part of the mix would be reactor design rules to maximize safety and minimize the production of fissile materials. Monitoring would be mandatory and the agreements irrevocable on the penalty of immediate suspension of new fuel for 30 years.

This way no power reactors could be abused and small countries could reap the benefits thereof.

Where to do production/storage? Hmm.....remote, well defendable locations like the Western US, Australia etc. come to mind.

This is about the most sensible thing that has been said on this thread, so far. I would go along with it with a small proviso: there should be processing plants at strategic locations on every continent (except Antarctica, of course) to minimise transport. I find it ridiculous that intercontinental maritime transport is necessary today to transport fuel for reprocessing from Japan to Europe and back again or excess plutonium from the USA to France.

[Gurm]

hmm... it was working just a few minutes ago.

Odd, the one time I don't quote a story it disappears. It looks like the Iran Focus website is down. I'm sure it will be up again soon. Try the link again later.

The story is not quite as Gurm predicts...

The girl was out with her niece and both of their boyfriends.

Some men started throwing stones at them.

The boyfriends fled on their motorbikes (how gallant!).

The two girls were left stranded.

The men pushed them to the ground and tried to rape them.

The girl to be hanged had a small pocket knife and used it to cut the arm of the man who was holder her down.

She managed to free her niece and they tried to run away.

The men continued to chase them.

At some point as the girl was fighting off one of the men she managed to stab him in the chest and he died.

She swears that she didn't intend to kill him; that she was only trying to defend herself and protect her niece.

The judge of the case ordered that she be hanged.

That's not the one I was thinking of. Iran is making a habit of this! They already sentenced to death one girl that was gangraped last year - the one I was thinking of.

[Gurm]

They say Abraham blindly sumitted to Gods will 'eh?

That must come as quite a suprise to God given all the bargaining he had to do with Abraham over how many righteous people he'd have to find before he could smoke Sodom and Gomorrah

Here's this old, tent-dwelling, altar-building, promise-believing man from Ur standing toe-to-toe with his God, and God allowed it. Not only did he allow it, he was willing to modify His plans at Abraham’s request.

Blind submisison my arse

Dr. Mordrid

The gigantic difference, you see, between Islam and Judaeism. Jews are encouraged to question their God.

[schmosef]

That site is back up. You can check out the story now.

[TransformX]

uh, just so i can be clear too; that's a dead link. would you happen to have an alt for that story?

/meow

There you go:

Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.

The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005.

Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girls’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless.

She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.

As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.

The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death.

Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges.

In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.

The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.

[Gurm]

In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.
The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.

That's the one I was thinking of. Girl gets gangraped and they hold HER responsible, and then hang her.

YEAH WE SHOULD LET THOSE PEOPLE HAVE NUCLEAR POWER, BRIAN!

[Brian Ellis]

That's the one I was thinking of. Girl gets gangraped and they hold HER responsible, and then hang her.

YEAH WE SHOULD LET THOSE PEOPLE HAVE NUCLEAR POWER, BRIAN!

Frankly, I don't see any connection whatsoever between how a country generates electricity and how they administer their justice, even if the latter is outrageous by our standards of all capital punishment being outrageous. Or perhaps you are trying to say they shouldn't have electricity, at all?

Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, all countries which perpetrate affronts to human rights should not have the right to nuclear power. That means that 21.2% of US electricity generation should close down immediately, 76% of French, 36% of Swiss and 27.1% of UK etc. as all these countries have violated the Human Rights Charter in the past year.

Ridiculous, isn't it?

[Dr Mordrid]

Iran needs nuclear power like a nudist needs a 24 hour laundry

They have all manner of other means, including natural gas up the wazoo. Anyone who thinks their "need" for nuclear is anything but a veiled attempt to weaponize is a prime candidate for buying the Brooklyn Bridge.

Dr. Mordrid

[schmosef]

Frankly, I don't see any connection whatsoever between how a country generates electricity and how they administer their justice, even if the latter is outrageous by our standards of all capital punishment being outrageous. Or perhaps you are trying to say they shouldn't have electricity, at all?

Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, all countries which perpetrate affronts to human rights should not have the right to nuclear power. That means that 21.2% of US electricity generation should close down immediately, 76% of French, 36% of Swiss and 27.1% of UK etc. as all these countries have violated the Human Rights Charter in the past year.

Ridiculous, isn't it?

Once again, the moral relativism is indeed "ridiculous".

from PrimaNews

Court in Iran sentences children to death

IRAN, Teheran. Zhila Izadi, a 13-year-old resident of Marivan in north-western Iran, who had a child fathered by her own brother, was sentenced to death by stoning, reveals Iran dissident group Iran Press Service with reference to Peike Iran newspaper.

According to the Iranian newspaper’s information, the girl was brought to trial by her own father who told the authorities that she had disgraced the family. The girl’s 15-year-old brother was placed into prison in Teheran and sentenced to 150 lashes. The dissidents claim that Zhila Izadi’s sentence has not yet been confirmed, however, the court and the family have already agreed on the issue of execution. The girl was separated from her baby in prison two weeks after it had been born.

In August 2004, 16-year-old Ateqeh Radjabi was hanged in Iran; she was condemned on the charges of "acts incompatible with chastity". Iran Press Service states that the girl, who had been accused of prostitution, was sentenced to death for voicing outrage at the system of the Islamic state during the court hearing. The judge was so incensed at this that he personally put the noose around her neck when he heard that his decision had been upheld by the higher instance. According to Amnesty International’s information, at least 10 underage children have been executed in Iran since 1990.

The issue isn't whether they should have nuclear power. The issue is whether they should have the means to develop and build nuclear weapons.

The fact is that appeasement wont work. Further, there's nothing that they need appeasement for. Any grievances are merely a pretext.

Personally, I've had my fill of "Munich Agreements".

[Brian Ellis]

According to Amnesty International, the USA executed more child offenders than any other country (19 between 1990 and 2003). Against 10 in Iran. Perhaps the USA shouldn't have nuclear power or weapons if you are going to equate moral issues with the right to generate electricity or fry other countries. As I said, this equation is a totally ridiculous non sequitur, so quit trying to step on moral high ground.

[Dr Mordrid]

Brian, before spewing at least keep up with current events.

The US does not allow the execution of those who offended while under the age of 18.

While this was permitted under a 1989 US Supreme Court decision the court reversed itself early last year.

Also understand that the homicide statutes here are STATE laws, not Federal ones. The US consists of 50 separate States, each severely independent, which set their own criminal statutes and policies. This notion some in Europe have that the US is some homogenous legal entity is totally wrong for 99.5% of all crimes and for most all governmental functions.

As citizens we are far more affected by State law than Federal law unless the USSC holds the State/local law violates some provision of the US Constitution, as was done here, or it conflicts with some aspect of Federal jurisdiction as defined in the Constitution.

Even though executing those under 18 has been technically legal since the death penalty was made legal in a 1976 USSC decision not all governmental entities had permitted it as a matter of State policy as set by its Governor or State Legislature. Many had instituted moratoriums and the federal government, U.S. military and 31 states had already abolished the death penalty for those under 18. In all 43 three states had not executed a qualitying person since 1976. No one younger than 16 had been executed since 1948. Tell that one to Iran.

Most all of the 22 executions of those who offended under 18 since 1976 had taken place in Texas (13) followed by Virginia (3) and Oaklahoma (2). Only these three states had executed anyone under the age of 18 in the last 10 years.

Dr. Mordrid

[TransformX]

Frankly, I don't see any connection whatsoever between how a country generates electricity and how they administer their justice, even if the latter is outrageous by our standards of all capital punishment being outrageous. Or perhaps you are trying to say they shouldn't have electricity, at all?

Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, all countries which perpetrate affronts to human rights should not have the right to nuclear power. That means that 21.2% of US electricity generation should close down immediately, 76% of French, 36% of Swiss and 27.1% of UK etc. as all these countries have violated the Human Rights Charter in the past year.

Ridiculous, isn't it?

Well, Israel doesn't have nuclear power plants for electricity and we're doing quite fine other than for the pollution. Iran can generate rather clean electricity using natural gas. Try again Brian, you fail to convince anyone here that they need nuclear plants for electricity.

[Brian Ellis]

Well, Israel doesn't have nuclear power plants for electricity and we're doing quite fine other than for the pollution. Iran can generate rather clean electricity using natural gas. Try again Brian, you fail to convince anyone here that they need nuclear plants for electricity.

Quite frankly, I would rather everyone generated their electricity from nuclear energy, which is far cleaner and safer than natural gas, combined with renewables. http://www.cypenv.org/world/Files/methane.htm

Do you even realise that 3,000,000 people are estimated to die each year from energy-related combustion (WHO figure) and 10 times as many suffer from illnesses related to it? And that does not count the effects of climate change.

[Gurm]

Brian,

Let me explain this like you would to a little CHILD, ok?

*sigh*

Let's say that you have a school bully. Now we adults aren't afraid of the school bully, but on a daily basis this bully beats up all the little kids in school.

Now this child, the bully, needs food. We don't want to deprive him of food, right? So he asks us for our credit card.

Now he has told all the other kids - and even some adults - that as soon as he gets some money, he's going to buy things that he'll use to hurt the other kids. Maybe even kill them. Knives, guns, whatever he can get. He has YELLED THIS from the top of the school.

Shall we give him the credit card then? Hmm?

And before you say it's a bad analogy... it's not. You're being intentionally thick about this, and disingenuous in your arguments. Period.