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Plus nothing says the perp wouldn't try again, hence the right to defend after the initial attack.
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Dr. Mordrid
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You may feel that way, but that is not what is in most laws. It may be in Judeo and Islamic/Sharia law, I would not know, but not in Roman law based systems.Originally posted by TransformX View PostJust because he failed, doesn't automatically make him immune to retaliation.
I don't turn the other cheek, you had your shot at me, I want mine at you.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - VeblenComment
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Maybe in Europe, but certainly not in the US where the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws have become the norm. If you assault or do a home invasion here your up Shitz Creek without a paddle with a bulls-eye on your back.
Hell, this came up early in my teen years. Back then the township police dept. closed at 9 pm in our farm community and the nearest state police post was almost 15 miles away, and even they only had 2 cars after midnight and they patrolled a freeway from Dearborn to the state line with Ohio.
My father and I were checking the barn for an intruder. We circled from opposite directions and I came upon the perp while he was drawing down on my father from behind with a shotgun. Bad day for him; I had a 12 gauge autoloading shotgun filled with 1 oz. deer slugs. Result: a pat on the back.
A neighbor kid had a similar experience; he awoke upstairs to find home invaders holding weapons on his parents and siblings on the ground floor. He was just back from VietNam. He pulled out his autoloading rifle and cleaned house. Brian 3, Baddies 0. Same reaction from the cops.
Then as an adult I noticed 3 morons breaking into a neighbors house, one I knew had a sleeping teenaged girl in it; she had gotten off her night shift and her parents had asked me to keep an eye on the house and her while they were away for a few hours. Pulled out the 12 gauge and held them on the ground 'til the local cops arrived. Shift Supervisor got there and pondered out loud (for their benefit) if he should leave & let me take care of it or if he should take them in still sucking air. By the time they'd almost wet their pants he loaded them into the wagon.
And these were decades before the Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground.Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 30 September 2009, 00:26.Dr. Mordrid
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An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fpsComment
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Assume we went on a duel. I shot and missed, then turned my back and fled. Would it be illegal for you to shoot back?Originally posted by Umfriend View Post
WWII, German anti tank soldiers used a nasty tactic: they shot their missile, taking down a British tank and then stood up and surrendered. At some point, a British general said he didn't want to see German anti tank captives anymore. EVERYONE got the message."For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."Comment
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@Doc, I know the story about your father. That was not retaliation but protecting your father. The 2nd case might be similar and in the 3rd case I'd guess they were unarmed.
I just reacted to "Just because he failed, doesn't automatically make him immune to retaliation." and your cases do not reflect on that at all.
@TX, same thing, not applicable. But I'd kill you before I'd accept to a duel
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[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - VeblenComment
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Actually, that's the Jewish (talmud) law:Originally posted by Umfriend View Post@TX, same thing, not applicable. But I'd kill you before I'd accept to a duelIf Someone Comes to Kill You, Rise Up and Kill Him First"For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."Comment
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As I said,, it may be in Judeo or Islamic/Sharia law, but it is not in Roman systems.
Moreover, this was about shooting robbers, not about people trying to kill you. Anyway, let's try and stay on topic, OK?Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - VeblenComment
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Like I said, if you consider an assault on you to be an open invitation for a duel...
When you assault me, you practically challenge me. A fair result to a challenge is win, lose or at least admit defeat by surrendering. Running away isn't one of them.
Now see my item about WWII and the surrender of German anti tank units.."For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."Comment
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You may have missed the smiley I put up there with the I'd kill you first comment. I'm not sure snatching my purse is an assault that warrants shooting someone when in retreat.
Not sure how the German anti tank units case is relevant here. It might have been had they been trying to steal tanks.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
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What's the difference between stealing your wallet or punching you in the face if I do that and then turn to run away?"For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."Comment
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If there is no difference then why won't you try and take my wallet after I punched you in the face?Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
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So if I steal your wallet with say.. 200 Euros and run, you won't shoot me. But if I punch you in the face, you will?
What if I just kick your knee, or slap you?
What if you had 2000 euros in your wallet instead of 200?"For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."Comment
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LOL. Relax TX, this is not about me. I was just stating that most legal systems do not recognise a right ro retaliate. I never said I would shoot you.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - VeblenComment
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I think you might be parsing words here. There is a difference between defense and retaliation. To me, defense implys an immediate response to an immediate threat, whereas retaliation implys seeking out or hunting down a transgressor after the fact.
KevinComment
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In the really real world there isn't a clear line but a fuzzy one.
ex: an assailant while moving away decides not to leave a witness, turns and fires. Happens all the time, just ask an experienced street cop. A smart victim will counterattack even during the initial retreat.
BTW: this example came up in the combat training the police taught in our CCW (carry permit) classes. The thrust was don't take the chance that the perp won't change his mind, return to the scene and eliminate witnesses.Dr. Mordrid
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An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.
I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fpsComment
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