"Blu-ray Disc" vs. "HD DVD": Neither Is Winning

[Jerry Jones]

OK, here's a preliminary review.

Setup of the Apple TV is a breeze.

I just played an entire episode of Star Trek (from the original series).

I bought this episode a few months ago from the Apple iTunes store.

So the file resides on a computer hard disk.

It's MPEG-4 and I was under the impression that it could not be smoothly streamed using my older 802.11g wireless network.

Well, it can.

It played perfectly.

Not one stutter.

So I'm gaining confidence that it is possible to perfectly stream standard definition video from the iTunes store using an older 802.11g wireless network.

Sure it would be better to have the newer 802.11n wireless network.

But it would seem that 802.11g will work for all kinds of different things.

So far, I've tested the following.

1. Star Trek (Where No Man Has Gone Before)

This digital file resides on the system drive of a computer and I streamed it -- live -- to the Apple TV, which is connected to a TV, and the entire episode played without a single glitch.

2. YouTube

I can stream YouTube videos without any stutters to the TV. The Apple TV features many of the same functions that you find on the YouTube Web site. For example, you can search for any YouTube video -- via the Apple TV -- using an alphabetic search function. The Apple TV comes with a remote control that lets you browse through a very well designed on-screen menu.

3. Music

I've been able to stream -- live -- any Apple iTunes purchased music.

4. Photos

I've been able to stream any photo on my computer -- live -- to the TV.

5. Podcasts

I'm listening to NPR (National Public Radio) right now via the Apple TV.

This is a reasonably priced device; it costs less than many standard and high definition dvd players and it works exceptionally well. There's really no need to buy an Apple TV with a huge hard disk because wireless networks let you store content on any hard disk in the house.

I think APPLE TV is going to sell like crazy in the months ahead (unless the economy goes into the toilet).



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Review to follow.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, I got the low-cost Apple TV... the $229 model.

Plan to store content on my computer hard disks.

Then transfer via iTunes to the Apple TV hard disk when needed.

With my 802.11g wireless network, I suspect I'll be able to stream quite a bit of content without need for any transfer at all.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

I just got my new Apple TV!!!

(Setting it up now.)

Mark, to answer your question about my use of standard definition optical discs.

Yes, I use them once in awhile, but they're really old fashioned.

Why?

I won't be buying any more of them unless I can't find the content on Apple TV.

The reason is lack of space in my home.

I have so many standard definition hollywood film DVDs, I barely have room to store them and organize them and it's a real pain.

There is absolutely no way I'm going down the physical spinning disc path again for high definition.

They take up too much space and I am just not as enthralled as you are about 1080p.

(I think you and many other consumers may be suffering from pixel envy.)

I believe content and good production values trump raw resolution every time.

In other words, a great film on standard definition DVD is far more entertaining to me than watching the home vacation video of the guy next door who bought a brand new shiny 1080p top-of-the-line high definition camcorder.

Anyway, my new Apple TV is tiny... I was so surprised to open the box and see how small it is and this pleases me.

Now I can buy media via the Apple iTunes store and manage it much more efficiently on my Mac hard drives where it won't consume physical space.

Go ahead and load up on those Blu-ray Discs, Mark.

Buy a truck load of them.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

Jerry,

Ah ha. Not only do you admit to watching the "dead" format of optical discs. But you even go so far as to state that some of your optical disc movies aren't even available on HD disc. Does this mean you can't stream these movies? I don't get it you say discs are dead but you are holding them? Do you mean that they're "almost dead" but not quite? Even more amazing is the fact that you admit that you can't stream them otherwise you would sell the discs right?

As I've been saying for about 100 plus posts now many people are getting good use out of HD-DVD and Blu-Rays on a day-to-day basis, right now, while we wait for a more full featured streaming network solution. I've been watching 2 HD optical rental disc per week from Netflix since I got up HTPC up and running two months ago. It has already been worth it for me.

And I wasn't bragging about my 1080p TV, only stating how HD optical discs look great on a monitor that natively supports them. You see Blu-Rays will often have bit rate peaks at 30Mbps or more.

I am very frugal with my money. My last "large" screen TV was a JVC 32" model purchased in 1998! This was a BIG purchase for me and I investigated the market for over a year.

As far as 1080p being "BS." For some people yes. I don't like to make blanket generalizations like that. You see I needed 1080p because since I'm using it as a HTPC monitor it's really nice to have that extra resolution for computer work. In addition in a 52" size I believe with good 1080p content you can see a difference in resolution during video playback. But 720p is fantastic too. I believe that the industry is still working on making each of those 1080p pixels count. They're doing it better with 720p. And we all know that SD is at the pinnacle of it's evolution. I plan to have this TV for a number of years and would like to be able to "grow into" the 1080p content as it gets better and better.

I'm in between video cameras at the moment. I am very interested in large RGB CMOS cameras like the Red One but at $17k for body only it's way out of my budget. These large single RGB CMOS cameras look to be very promising. They operate much like digital SLRs in many cases, sometimes recording a RAW format that is "developed" in the NLE. Pretty neat since all you need get right when shooting is focus and exposure. All else occurs in the NLE. Very natural workflow if you're used to using a dSLR.

In addition the large sensors, not using Bayer filters, have better light sensitivity due to less photosite filtering, and the large size of the filters. They also have color accuracy on par with 3 sensor cameras since there is no color interpolation as with Bayer. Lattitude is nearly as good as film. And the large sensors allow for shallow depth of field. Yes I have a feeling the prices on this technology will plummet in the near future.

Jerry you know I have a strong dislike of interlaced cameras in this age of natively progressive display devices. I also don't like to deal with pulldown to get framerates. And I also like full raster formats. I'm having hard time finding a camera that fits my bill within my budget. It's generally known that current 3 CCD cameras (1/3" sensors) are about 2 or 3 stops short of film lattitude. I am leaning toward single RGB CMOS cameras like the Sony V1, but that's an expensive one too!

[Evildead666]

At $359 it's not much more then I paid for my Pioneer 4X DVD burner. Paid Almost $300 at CDW, and it wasn't that long ago......


.

Thats still a lot of cash....
I could get a TB of storage and still have some cash left over...

When they get to be 100 quid or less, 150 Euros max...then thats a good price.

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/apple-tv-20-vs-blu-ray-dvd-hd-cable-the-comparison/

Apple TV 2.0 vs. Blu-Ray, DVD & HD Cable: The Comparison

We used a very recent 40” Sony Bravia XBR4 television with 1080p and 120Hz support for our testing, and set all of our HDMI-connected playback devices to display at their best possible resolutions: the Blu-Ray Disc player was a PlayStation 3 console at 1080p, the Apple TV was set to its new 1080p mode, the Scientific Atlanta cable box was set to its maximum of 1080i, and the DVD player was the same PlayStation 3 at 1080p, set on normal upscaling mode. Four test screens were picked as representative of the film’s content, and a Nikon camera was used to shoot each paused screen at 1/80 of a second.

What We Saw

While the Blu-Ray version was the clear winner of the bunch, we were surprised by how well the Apple TV fared in comparison to the other formats we tested.

What impressed us about the Apple TV rental was that the video, despite needing to be sent over the Internet rather than residing comfortably on a DVD or Blu-Ray Disc, exhibited little in the way of motion blur or compression artifacts—it looked as good as could be expected from 720p, which is to say comfortably better than DVD quality, but shy of the best a Blu-Ray Disc can offer on a top TV. The Apple TV video also contained a Dolby Digital 5.1 surround audio track, which the HD cable version did not, and its sound didn’t suffer from obvious compression issues like the cable version did.

It’s also worth noting that the Blu-Ray Disc’s biggest video and audio advantages are real, but will be lost on many HDTV users. Since the majority of HDTVs sold before 2007 were not capable of displaying true 1080p output—most were capped at 720p or 1080i—the superior video quality of the Blu-Ray versions of movies won’t be noticeable on such sets, and the difference between the Apple TV and Blu-Ray versions will be less noticeable. If you’re using a TV without the ability to display 1080p video—especially if you don’t have a receiver capable of decoding the Blu-Ray Disc’s DTS-HD signal—an Apple TV rental will be an almost complete substitute for renting the Blu-Ray.

"HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc?"

Dead as DISCo.



APPLE TV: http://www.apple.com/appletv/

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[ND66]

I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced combo drive to appear for my PC.

At $359 it's not much more then I paid for my Pioneer 4X DVD burner. Paid Almost $300 at CDW, and it wasn't that long ago......


.

[Evildead666]

On a side note, I rent a LOT of DVD's at the local store, and some of the 2hr films are less than 4.7Gb...to me that is a lack of quality...deliberate to make HD look good ? SO they upscale bad ?

I'll try to get a screenshot at some point...

[Evildead666]

The whole point of the new UltraHD standards is to enable even larger screens.
My 32" 720p screen is fine for me.
If I wanted a 36" screen or larger, i'd have gone 1080p.

Above 50" I would probably like an even higher resolution. 4K x 2K maybe...

Downloads are not yet GLOBALLY ready for 720p content, let alone 1080p and higher.
A good encoding of a movie in 720p in h264 is DVD-R5 size.
Its 2-3 R5's for the same movie in h264 in 1080p.
4x that for 4K x 2K.

BluRay will have to be used, since HD-DVD is no more, and downloads will not really be full HD.

We'll have very good 720p quality, so as to not walk all over the 1080p and upwards discs...
The majority of people will be able to download and watch in 720p, quite happily, and some others will want a higher resolution for their huge TV's, and will buy/rent discs.

That way they can sell on all the markets.

[Jerry Jones]

You are quite incorrect, Mark.

I have two high definition 720p flat panel TVs and I watch HD downloads and I watch HD video recorded by my high definition AVCHD Sony HDR-UX1 camcorder and I watch high definition TV (ATSC) broadcasts, including the high definition documentary broadcasts of my local PBS station.

In addition, I have a huge collection of standard definition DVDs from "The Sound of Music" (musicals) to "Once Upon A Time In The West" (westerns) to "The Outer Limits" (TV series), etc. Much of this type of content is not even available on high definition DVD -- not on "Blu-ray Disc" and not on "HD DVD."

So I think it would be quite stupid -- for me and not necessarily for you -- to invest in what I perceive to be obsolete high definition DVD optical disc technologies.

Mark, you can brag all you want about having bought a top-of-the-line Sony 1080p HDTV.

But -- frankly -- I'm not going to fall for the 1080p b.s.

Yes, you spent more money than I did and you have more expensive HDTV monitors than I have.

Good for you.

But does that give you the right to needle people who have chosen to be more frugal and buy 720p HDTV monitors?

Does it give you the right to question whether they are even watching HDTV at all?

Are you trying to suggest that I don't know what HDTV looks like?

Mark, I could engage in this kind of behavior.

I could needle you about whether or not you even own a high definition consumer or prosumer camcorder.

Do you? Or are you waiting for the first "1080p" model?

If so, then buy the new 1080p JVC model and let's hear how good it really is.



I'm perfectly happy with 720p.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

Jerry,

So do I interpret your answer as you don't watch any HD streaming content?

And you DO still use optical discs to view movies?

Hmm.

[Jerry Jones]

It is possible to achieve very high quality with relatively low bit rates.

This is especially true if one uses top quality encoders.

I have a standard definition Star Trek episode downloaded via the iTunes store and seeing is believing.

It's 640 x 480, but it looks like a 720 x 480 MPEG-2 DVD.

My Sony HDR-UX1 AVCHD camcorder achieves pretty nice quality using a 12Mbps bit rate -- not bad for an H.264/MPEG-4 encoder that hasn't been optimized to the degree that MPEG-2 has been optimized over the past ten years.

Don't swallow the low bitrate myth; could that be another marketing ploy by the Blu-ray Disc camp?

These Apple TV movies are starting out at 720p.

But I'm certain 1080p will follow, especially since support for the standard now shows up in the Apple TV menu.

That's a pretty good hint.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

why bother with 1080P when they cripple the movies with low bit rates?

[Tjalfe]

why bother with 1080P when they cripple the movies with low bit rates?

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/12/apple-tv-take-2-take-two/

Engadget's take on the new, updated Apple TV.

...Did someone say 1080p output? Oh yes, it's finally enabled!...

...Our HD movie was ready for playback within a minute of starting the download. Very nice...

...Renting movies is absolutely a snap...

...Picture quality is pretty good. Not amazing, but pretty good...

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net