"Blu-ray Disc" vs. "HD DVD": Neither Is Winning

[Jerry Jones]

Well, the 640 x 480 Apple TV shows that I'm watching are just as clear and nice as movies on my standard definition DVD-video discs.

Apple uses the term "near DVD-quality" just to be on the safe side in terms of consumer expectations, but my Apple TV downloads look just as good as DVDs.

Apple uses the finest encoders available.

This is why Apple's "near DVD quality" movies have outsold high definition optical disc movies.

The numbers don't lie.

I have to tell you, Brian, this Apple TV is the next "big thing."

I'm being sincere here.

At least give it some consideration.

It's really a remarkable device.

For just $229 or less (on Amazon), you can buy one.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-9129445-5675216?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=apple+tv&x=0&y=0

I've had mine for just a couple of days and it has already performed well beyond my expectations.

There's no way I'm going to spend huge dollars on Blu-ray -- disc player, receiver, cables, optical discs and all of the other baggage -- when I can get top quality 720p high definition movies via the clean, simple Apple TV for far less money and much greater flexibility and features that go well beyond just watching movies.

I am streaming the the most wonderful podcasts from all over the globe to my television using Apple TV. Wireless streaming is truly the ultimate in convenience and simplicity.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

Condemned from your own mouth!!! 640 x 480: not even SD.

[Jerry Jones]

Elie,

1080p is not ready for primetime; it's a marketing ploy at this point in history.

The United States broadcast standard is ATSC.

Take a close look at the numbers in this table:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

It is critical to note that there is no 1080p @ 60 frames per second for the United States broadcasting system.

The United States broadcast system currently supports 1080p at a mere 30 and 24 frames per second.

The Apple TV *does* support 1080p output.

But 1080p movies are so huge -- in terms of file size -- that they make downloading via current broadband impractical.

In addition, the 1080p movies that are available are limited to 24 frames per second or 30 frames per second.

There has been virtually no production to date that has utilized 1080p at 60 frames per second so why would I want to watch 1080p at 24 frames or 30 frames per second when I can watch 720p at a full 60 frames per second to capture very nice, smooth motion?

So, Elie, I would submit that you also suffer from "pixel-envy."

Wake up; you're chasing a ghost.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

1080P will blow the doors out of 720p

[Brian Ellis]

• HD DVD has sold 2.5 million movies since April 2006 (20 months)
• Blu-ray has sold 6 million movies since June 2006, (18 months)
• Apple has sold 7 million movies since September 2006 (15 months)

Apple's iTunes Store has sold nearly three times more movies — in "near-DVD quality" 640x480 resolution and U.S.-only, no less

Condemned from your own mouth!!! 640 x 480: not even SD. Dammit, it would not surprise me if this little country of 750,000 persons has viewed 7 million SD movies in 15 months, if you count both sales and rentals, at 720x576. In my village of 1500 inhabitants there are 2 DVD rental shops and they both appear to be booming. There is another one in the next village of about equal size. Within a 25 km radius, there must be at least 100 and several shops selling them. Optical media are well alive and kicking, even if HD is morose.

How dare you compare 640x480 with HD-DVD and BR, anyway? Sour apples and ripe mangoes.

You should have now condemned this thread to death from your own confession.

[Hulk]

Jerry your enthusiasm is admirable

While the Apple TV is ok for the average person that does not care about quality. 1080P will blow the doors out of 720p, I've seen both and know that you simple cannot compare the two.
Blu-Ray is not dead, you are forgetting some very important aspects why people will still buy Blu-ray media...

1-Blu-Ray supports 1080P and it's AMAZING! (I don't think you have acutally seen it otherwise you will not be knocking it down)

2-The studios that support Blu-Ray may be exlusively offering some block buster movie hits on blu-ray and not available for download.

3-people want to collect media like myself, I have over 150 DVD movie that I have bought from stores, I will not download and burn on DVD, because I don't get the extras including the box.
4-editors and production studios will have no choice but to burn HD content on Blu-ray, what are you going to say to customers, go and download the content from my server? hehe!

The battle between HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray is now over, this will encourage the consumer like myself to stock up on the best looking movies (eye candy) hits on Blu-ray and enjoy on 1080p TV's.


Cheers,
Elie

Elie,

You are absolutely correct! And so has everyone else that has been arguing against Jerry in this thread. I've been trying to hold back and protect him from the harsh truth of how wrong he is but at this point I think it better to just let him know the truth.

Yes, unless you have some very old eyes 1080p with good content and a good monitor is MUCH better than 720p. My display with BRs is astounding. Simply eye-popping.

Broadcast 720p is pretty good but good 1080p Blu-Rays and HD-DVDs blow it away in the same way 480p is blowin away by 720p.

Hmm. Let's see 720-480=240
1080-720=360

Well what do you know?! The jump from 720p to 1080p is actually larger than from 480p to 720p! Did you read that Jerry? You're "good enough" 720p is closer in resolution to SD than it is to 1080p. Ha Ha Ha!!!

The dumbed down, low resolution, format limited, weak cpu'ed, Apple TV might be fine for some people but if you are looking for the best video quality then you'll want the real thing and today that's 1080p. All of the newest releases are on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and more and more older titles are being released every week.

I am enjoying it now. We're talking about the best consumer format right? Well right now that's 1080p and HD optical media!!!

Sorry Jerry that'a a fact Jack! Hey I rhymed too! Ha Ha!

Bwaahaaaahaaa!!! (evil laugh)

[Tjalfe]

Actually, the numbers strongly suggest Apple iTunes is beating both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/16111/

On Tuesday, January 15, Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced that Apple had sold 7 million movies to date online via iTunes Store.

Therefore, we know:
• HD DVD has sold 2.5 million movies since April 2006 (20 months)
• Blu-ray has sold 6 million movies since June 2006, (18 months)
• Apple has sold 7 million movies since September 2006 (15 months)

Apple's iTunes Store has sold nearly three times more movies — in "near-DVD quality" 640x480 resolution and U.S.-only, no less — than HD DVD titles in 5 fewer months and more movies than Blu-ray titles in 2 fewer months - all without the support of many major Hollywood studios (all of whom are, of course, now onboard with Apple's new iTunes movie rentals, which will soon begin offering titles in High Definition (720p) with 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound - only via Apple TV, for now).



Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

you should be comparing apples itunes with regular DVD sales. Blu Ray should be compared with Apple HD sales.. do you have those numbers?
also, you are comparing Sales with Rentals, are you not?

[Elie]

Jerry your enthusiasm is admirable

While the Apple TV is ok for the average person that does not care about quality. 1080P will blow the doors out of 720p, I've seen both and know that you simple cannot compare the two.
Blu-Ray is not dead, you are forgetting some very important aspects why people will still buy Blu-ray media...

1-Blu-Ray supports 1080P and it's AMAZING! (I don't think you have acutally seen it otherwise you will not be knocking it down)

2-The studios that support Blu-Ray may be exlusively offering some block buster movie hits on blu-ray and not available for download.

3-people want to collect media like myself, I have over 150 DVD movie that I have bought from stores, I will not download and burn on DVD, because I don't get the extras including the box.
4-editors and production studios will have no choice but to burn HD content on Blu-ray, what are you going to say to customers, go and download the content from my server? hehe!

The battle between HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray is now over, this will encourage the consumer like myself to stock up on the best looking movies (eye candy) hits on Blu-ray and enjoy on 1080p TV's.


Cheers,
Elie

[Jerry Jones]

And you are a Sony Blu-ray fan boy.

But there's an old Chinese proverb.

"It is better to be an Apple fan boy than the victim of a pixel-envy marketing ploy."

Hey, it rhymes.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

Jerry you are an Apple fanboy.

[Hulk]

Jerry you are an Apple fanboy.

[Jerry Jones]

Actually, the numbers strongly suggest Apple iTunes is beating both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/16111/

On Tuesday, January 15, Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced that Apple had sold 7 million movies to date online via iTunes Store.

Therefore, we know:
• HD DVD has sold 2.5 million movies since April 2006 (20 months)
• Blu-ray has sold 6 million movies since June 2006, (18 months)
• Apple has sold 7 million movies since September 2006 (15 months)

Apple's iTunes Store has sold nearly three times more movies — in "near-DVD quality" 640x480 resolution and U.S.-only, no less — than HD DVD titles in 5 fewer months and more movies than Blu-ray titles in 2 fewer months - all without the support of many major Hollywood studios (all of whom are, of course, now onboard with Apple's new iTunes movie rentals, which will soon begin offering titles in High Definition (720p) with 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound - only via Apple TV, for now).



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

Iits pretty clear BluRay is winning right now.

[Mehen]

If free MP3's haven't replaced CD's, I see no reason why $$ movie downloads would replace DVDs/BluRay.
And if we address the topic of the thread... its pretty clear BluRay is winning right now.

[Tjalfe]

Amount of time required for playback of an Apple TV download of a standard definition movie:

6 Mbps: less than 30 seconds
2 Mbps: about 1 minute
768 Kbps: about 1.5 hours

LINK: http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

Note how even seemingly small increases in broadband bandwidth results in an almost geometric increase in download speed.

I would submit that waiting even the 1.5 hours using a 768Kbps broadband connection involves less time and more convenience than driving to a DVD rental store, searching through the shelves for the right movie and then driving back home... and the price for the download is cheaper.



Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

those times are for buffering, not full download. this also requires an internet connection which always works, without hiccups, which all i have ever used have.
Having to wait an hour and a half to start watching a movie seems a bit long to me, and this is all SD, not HD content. HD sounds like an overnight buffering sort of affair.

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/apple-tv-20-vs-blu-ray-dvd-hd-cable-the-comparison/

Apple TV 2.0 vs. Blu-Ray, DVD & HD Cable: The Comparison

We used a very recent 40” Sony Bravia XBR4 television with 1080p and 120Hz support for our testing, and set all of our HDMI-connected playback devices to display at their best possible resolutions: the Blu-Ray Disc player was a PlayStation 3 console at 1080p, the Apple TV was set to its new 1080p mode, the Scientific Atlanta cable box was set to its maximum of 1080i, and the DVD player was the same PlayStation 3 at 1080p, set on normal upscaling mode. Four test screens were picked as representative of the film’s content, and a Nikon camera was used to shoot each paused screen at 1/80 of a second.

What We Saw

While the Blu-Ray version was the clear winner of the bunch, we were surprised by how well the Apple TV fared in comparison to the other formats we tested.

What impressed us about the Apple TV rental was that the video, despite needing to be sent over the Internet rather than residing comfortably on a DVD or Blu-Ray Disc, exhibited little in the way of motion blur or compression artifacts—it looked as good as could be expected from 720p, which is to say comfortably better than DVD quality, but shy of the best a Blu-Ray Disc can offer on a top TV. The Apple TV video also contained a Dolby Digital 5.1 surround audio track, which the HD cable version did not, and its sound didn’t suffer from obvious compression issues like the cable version did.

It’s also worth noting that the Blu-Ray Disc’s biggest video and audio advantages are real, but will be lost on many HDTV users. Since the majority of HDTVs sold before 2007 were not capable of displaying true 1080p output—most were capped at 720p or 1080i—the superior video quality of the Blu-Ray versions of movies won’t be noticeable on such sets, and the difference between the Apple TV and Blu-Ray versions will be less noticeable. If you’re using a TV without the ability to display 1080p video—especially if you don’t have a receiver capable of decoding the Blu-Ray Disc’s DTS-HD signal—an Apple TV rental will be an almost complete substitute for renting the Blu-Ray.

"HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc?"

Dead as DISCo.



APPLE TV: http://www.apple.com/appletv/

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

My point?

My point is that "HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc" are as dead as DISC-o.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

Jerry, what's the point?

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/ReallyNeed.html

Great article about up-converting players.

Brian, sales of "HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc" are indeed relatively low.

Consumers can see they're as dead as DISC-o.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

I can assure you that HD-DVD and BR discs are now in the shops and DVD renters here, with perhaps 100-200 titles in each, but sales are low (high cost compared with SD DVDs). What is perhaps significant is that HD TVs now have SD up-converting. I have a JVC 1080p LCD which up-converts to 760p from 576i. I don't know how they do it but the quality is remarkable. The only time I can see staircase artefacts is with very thin lines (like a violin string, for example) which is slightly off horizontal. I suggest that this is a reason why SD DVD sales are really booming and HD ones are morose (while HD or SD downloading does not exist, at all). Why pay for 30 Gb of data when you can get almost the same quality at 1/3 the cost?

[Jerry Jones]

Amount of time required for playback of an Apple TV download of a standard definition movie:

6 Mbps: less than 30 seconds
2 Mbps: about 1 minute
768 Kbps: about 1.5 hours

LINK: http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

Note how even seemingly small increases in broadband bandwidth results in an almost geometric increase in download speed.

I would submit that waiting even the 1.5 hours using a 768Kbps broadband connection involves less time and more convenience than driving to a DVD rental store, searching through the shelves for the right movie and then driving back home... and the price for the download is cheaper.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

so of those 47%, how many have access to a line capable of streaming HD contents?
Broadband is defined as anything faster than dialup, is it not?.. where many 512Kbit lines out there are broadband, they cannot stream TV