Reuters: 33 lbs of weapons grade Uranium seized....

[MadScot]

Originally posted by Dogbert
I know a few civil wars as a neutral examples that brought a lot of good.
The French revolution, the ware between the north and the south in the U.S...

Don't be too quick to diss war. War is a very big word with just three letters and it's being very carelessly used.

Uhhh, how did these wars directly bring good that otherwise would not have happened? The french ended with a dictator. OK, the US ended slavary, so it is the exception that proves the rule?

[Dogbert]

I could give some more but it'll start a flame war.

[Dogbert]

Just to prove a little linguistic point, is full scale war against poverty or hunger considered bad ? Yes, for the rich. But is it a bad war ?
Don't tell me it's not what you mean by war. First check the definition of war. Many warlike actions were names "project", "Operation" etc. So these words interchange quite easily.

Next time you're ill, don't fight back, tell your immunity system to lay back and relax. Fighting and war are bad. Let the microbs live !
Since they are living creatures, they have rights too. If you deny them any of those rights, I'll sue you in a court for molesting animals.

[Dogbert]

You shouls also stop killing fleas, mosquitos etc. Killing is bad and since they are defenceless against you, you'll be comitting outright bloody murder. This is why some monks in India never shower since they might drown a fea or something.

[Goc]

Sorry Dogbert but I think you're going to extremes now... C'mon, microbs, fleas?!?!

[KvHagedorn]

Exactly.. He was trying to prove a point.. it IS stupid isn't it?

Geez LCD at work here..

[Goc]

Yep Kv...
I agree with what Dogbert is saying about humans doing same old sh*t but also what he said, subtlety is involved today.
Unlike you guys, I believe that with time things will become more subtle until they finally go away... I know it sounds like a typical Utopian dream, but heck... It's how I feel. And no matter what, only time can prove me wrong or prove you right...

[Dogbert]

Wont another way of proving the point ?
Sinc eyou haven't read the Hitchhickers guide to the galaxy you might find it somewhat unusual:

What if tomorrow aliens with intelligence surpassing ours land here and decide to harvest us for food, what would you think about the morality of it ?
Now thing about cows. Oh, they don't resist or protest much ?
The jews in Auschwitz didn't protest or resist much either when they were led to the gas chambers.
What now ? No more meat ? Will you become a full vegeterian from now on ?

You can't take the words war, death, killing etc. and decide it's bad just because the first thing you're associateing with it is guns and blood.

War against unemployment is a great thing and a great war to participate in. On the other hand, a cultural war might seem harmless at first (just culture) but eventually cause suffer behond your dreams.

[thop]

it's funny to read that europe is doomed and how bad a place it is, while i'm feeling quite happy and very safe here. speaking of immigration and invasion i could also talk about israel but that will start a messy flamewar so i will not.

i've have not experienced war first hand but have heard enough stories from my grandpa who fought against the germans (makes you scratch your eh? ) in WW2 and i don't want to experience it.

ps. i've read the hitchhikers guide (only the first book though) but i dont understand your point. is it that the earth got destroyed?

[Goc]

I've read everything late Douglas Adams ever wrote so I'm quite familiar with his funny yet makes-you-think style...
But as that is only a book, and real life is still real life let's not mix those two, OK?

is it that the earth got destroyed?

Yep... Page 15 or something like that... Like drinking a glass of water. ZAP! Planet no more...

[Vlip]

Europe is doomed

What a pile of shit!

Really guys, you should read yourself.

Go back in history and you'll see that they very same old-tired-over-used and stupid "Europe is doomed by immigration" has been used ad nauseam throughout it.

Just look at France and the massive Italian immigration in the 19th century, raised massive xenophobe feelings and made people write that same idiotie you just did. Oh France is doomed, the Italians will steal our lands, they all stink, they are all barbarians and they are all thieves. God save France as it will be englobed in Italy, stolen from the "true" french...
Yet France is still France, it evolved trough time but it survived.

For centuries the various countries of Europe have been immigration land, my land has seen Portugese, Italians, Algerians, Kosovars, Croatians, Serbians, Africans and so long, all in different waves. And each time the same old tired refrain came: Switzerland will loose it's identity, Switzerland will get overwhelmed, Switzerland will disappear... And yet, nothing of it happened, my country is stronger than ever, the overwhelming majority of those immigrants adapt themselves extraordinary well.

Why? Simply because those immigrants are humans, nothing more, nothing less. And as such, their children have the "naughty" tendency to adapt themselves completely to our societies and even though they still keep some part of their cultural heritage they become "true Swiss".
Who ****ing cares what the first generation immigrant say or thinks? The assimilation occurs on their children level.

As for the aging society, well, that's indeed a problem, but every society faces their problem and we'll no doubt struggle our way through like we did so many time in the past.
People say that our population is aging, true, but people forget that our population is also aging better. Retirement in switzerland is fixed at 65. Why? Because historically when it was fixed a few decades before, 65 was the expected life span of a Swiss male. Now we live way longer, we can also work longer.

A reform of our mentalities about retirement must occur, and it will occur.

No, Europe is not doomed, there are many countries who are doomed in the long run, like Israel, Palestine, Afghanistan or such, but Europe ain't among them.

[Dogbert]

Vlip, the LITTLE difference is that now, for the first time in history there are more old people than young people in Europe.

And unlike former immigrants, the newer ones don't get assimilated. They don't integrate.

[Vlip]

Yes, and the BIG difference is that what you considered old a few decades before is now perfectly able to keep working.

Yes our population is aging, but they are aging way better too!

And unlike former immigrants, the newer ones don't get assimilated. They don't integrate.

Bullshit, I've met my fair share of all the different etnics I listed, all second generation immigrants, and all prolly more "Swiss" than I am. Hell, my best army pal was an african, you could hardly make more Swiss than him.

[Dogbert]

Still, once they die, the population will diminish.
The immigrants will become the majority.

[Vlip]

Yes, like the Italians were to become the majority in France last century.

The problem is, those immigrants will have assimilated, I don't define being Swiss as a skin color, nor a religion, being Swiss is compatible with all that. You can paint the devil on the wall all you want, you will still be proven wrong, I have a hard time believing that people still claim that some "evil" immigrant will take over the country and steal it from it's inhabitants.