World according to America

[UtwigMU]

Here we have the public school system is very good. But I was great at school and I went to hardest to get into high-school in the country so I'm not representative of general population.

I guess education and desire to get one stems mainly from attitude (self developed and family) and people who haven't developed attitude or were not given one by their parents cannot take full potential of school.

IMO people who didn't strive for knowledge are stupid everywhere and as KvHagedorn said it's really amazing how stupid they are about anything which has to do with culture.. not only are they supremely ignorant, but also arrogant about this ignorance, as if to know these things about the world somehow is a handicap to those who know. the sad thing is that being ignorant is OK attidude is excusable and even valid.

Here's what we took:

Primary school 8 years (now 9)

Slovenian: 8 years
Math: 8 years
Society and nature (science): 3 years
Nature (science): 1 year
Society (history, geography): 1 year
Gym 8 years
Art education (drawing) 8 years
Music (singing) 8 years

English: 4 years
Biology: 4 years
History: 4 years
Geography: 4 years
Chemistry: 2 years
Physics: 2 years
Technology: 4 years
Domestic science: 4 years

After that you choose:
- 2 year proffessional school (butcher, sweets maker, ...)

- 3-year proffessional school (cook, waiter, carenter, mechanic, driver, salesman ...)

- 4 year proffesional school (economy, tourism, electronic, same as previous, only higher level). This oppens you the way to professional 3-year college

4 year Hi-school (gymnasium) classic hi -schools or some with classic and a few professional courses. Standardized state finals (all students take the same test at the same time during finals, so that they are comparable) This oppens the way to university 4-year college

Slovenian: 4 years
Math: 4 years
History: 4 years
English: 4 years
German: 4 years
(I learned French 2 years as well)
Geografy: 3 years
History: 3 years
History of art: 2 years
Physics: 3 years
Chemistry: 3 years
Biology: 3 years
Psychology: 1 year
Sociology: 1 year
Philosophy: 1 year
Economy: 1 year
Gym 4 years

Finals consist of 5 subjects:
- Mother's tongue (Slovenian, possible aslo Italian or Hungarian in regions with minorities)
- Math
- Foreign language (I've choosen English)
- 2 additional subjects (I've choosen history and philosophy)

After that comes University

- 3 year college (economist, management, civil engineering)

- University diploma: normally 4.5 years (medicine 6, veterine 5)
(architecture, medicine, civil engineering, academy of arts, academy of acting, philosophy, biotechnology, law, economy, machinery, electornics, ...)

[Admiral]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn


Here you go..

http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm

http://www.friesian.com/decdenc2.htm

The second link, till Taxes and Survival, should give you a rather unbiased view of modern Romania's origins.

It might not satisfy all Romanians, and certainly not many Hungarians, but dealing with such an issue, outside the sphere of historical records, is intrinsically speculative and uncertain.

The conclusion is right, it might not satisfy the nationalistic Romanians over the centuries that claimed a pure roman origin and it doesn't satisfy many Hungarians with claims over Transilvania because there was continuity, they found a Daco-Romanian population there when they came, whether they want it or not. The population has always been Romanian in majority under the later ocupation and the orthodox religion was kept despite atempts of forced Catholicism.

Well, what can I say, hats off, if you read that previous to my post and didn't search for it after.
What bothers me is that many people think we're slav (and I don't have anything against slavic nations) in origin and are quite shocked when they see the strong latin influence.

[UtwigMU]

I used to be friend with children of Romanian ambassador here so I know quite a few things about Romania.

The most common word in our language (the swearword that starts with letter p) is the same as in Romanian.

Ce a drake facia ici?

[Gurm]

Yes, like NOT AT ALL...

Geography is not taught in school. Neither, to my utter shock and horror, is CIVICS! That's right, graduating High School seniors in the United States don't even know the composition of their own government!

AARRGGHHH!!

As for the freedom of speech thing, Thop... let me ask you a question (bearing in mind that Germany is pretty good about freedoms - well, unless you're in a cult or a hate group).

1. Can you stand on a street corner, get up on a soap box, and proclaim loudly that everyone with brown hair must be killed? How about Jews? Blacks? We can. In fact, the police are duty-bound to PROTECT us while we do so. Do I want to do this? Nope. But it's my right to do so.

2. Can you print, in your national paper, that the President of your country is a liar, a thief, and should be taken out and shot? We can... and do.

3. Can you start a crazy religion based on people having sex with you... and preach it on the street to attempt to gain converts (I'm asking this although I know that you can't)? We can - and lots of us do (too many for my taste).

Free speech in the United States is quite different from "free speech" in other countries.

- Gurm

[Wulfman]

Originally posted by Gurm

2. Can you print, in your national paper, that the President of your country is a liar, a thief, and should be taken out and shot? We can... and do.

lol, we had that shortly. the author of the book was sued by our president, 'cause the writer couldn't proof what he said.

mfg
wulfman

[UtwigMU]

1 is against constitution (forbiden to call on intolerance)

2 yes

3 yes

It's not freedom of speach it's that when people in western civilization (america, europe) will degrade to an extent that they will not take advantage of it is worrying me.

/OT Wulfman, what do you think about Austrian elections?

[thop]

To be honest that also boggles my mind (like denty said) that geography is not thought in school AT ALL. I do agree though with many things that GNEP said.

Before i answer to 1. 2. and 3. - your constitution says you are allowed to do that. But can you really do it in real life? or, more important, does someone? btw. pssst where do i join the religion mentioned in 3

3. actually yes.
2. certainly yes.
1. can you really do that in the US? motivating other people in public to kill someone is certainly not allowed here. this is known as "volksverhetzung" here. another example: it is not allowed to proclaim in public that the concentration camps in ausschwitz never existed or deny any of the nazi crimes ("ausschwitzlüge"). i could surely find more examples if you want.

i believe technically we have freedom of opinion but not 100% freedom of speech, don't quote me on that though

[Gurm]

Hate rallies happen all the time. We wish people wouldn't, but hate groups are ALL OVER THE PLACE.

And... in Germany (and France) I can GUARANTEE YOU that if you start a whacky cult and try to recruit people on the street you will be arrested post haste. I personally know people who have spent time in German and French prisons in the past 10 years for exactly this "crime". Additionally, Scientologists, despite being an authorized religion in most of the world, are routinely jailed in your country.

In this country, we do have libel and slander laws. However, we also have VIGOROUS protection of the press. Newspapers can print ANYTHING THEY WANT.

- Gurm

[thop]

ok what if you are a guest in a television show and suddenly start out screaming loud: THE PRESIDENT IS A FAG! KILL THE PRESIDENT! will the cops come and protect you?

or another example: let's just assume bill gates buys CNN and the only thing he broadcasts is KILL THE PRESIDENT (both in letters and speech) 24/7, will sth. happen?

Scientology is a an authorized Religion here, but the Government would rather like to seem then out of the country no doubt. But why some of them are in jail is because of regular crimes (mostly money related or because of other strange things they do) and not because of their religion.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Admiral

Well, what can I say, hats off, if you read that previous to my post and didn't search for it after.
What bothers me is that many people think we're slav (and I don't have anything against slavic nations) in origin and are quite shocked when they see the strong latin influence.

Well, I had not read the whole thing, no. But of course I knew about the Roman origins and most of the history and actually found the site with a search for "Vlach" from which Walachia derives its name. It's actually a very interesting history. I knew about the German and Hungarian minorities and the long time dispute with Hungary over Transylvania, begun when Arpad decided to claim the province. Knew about Moldavia and Moldova.. Of course lots of people know about Vlad the Impaler.

[Wulfman]

Originally posted by Gurm
And... in Germany (and France) I can GUARANTEE YOU that if you start a whacky cult and try to recruit people on the street you will be arrested post haste. I personally know people who have spent time in German and French prisons in the past 10 years for exactly this "crime". Additionally, Scientologists, despite being an authorized religion in most of the world, are routinely jailed in your country.

In this country, we do have libel and slander laws. However, we also have VIGOROUS protection of the press. Newspapers can print ANYTHING THEY WANT.

- Gurm

imho whacky cults are allowed here in austria, same with scientology. the only problem iirc is, as you say, that they don't get the status of an "official" church - especially scientology is judged as a "company", because they are working for profit - this mainly affects the way they are taxed.
another big group are the "zeugen jehovas" (don't know the english name). there was a trial once when a baby died after the parents prevented necessary treatment in the hospital. the judge decided that the babies life was "sacrificed for religious believes" - and that is the point where freedom of religion ends here. adults can do what they want, but if they force their believes on minors & it endangers their life..... their cult is not prohibited, but certain behavior is.

austrian newspapers can write everything, they don't have to present their sources - but they have to bare the consequences. for example, if there is a wrong headline, they have to print the "correction" in the same size / on the same page.

in germany, there is one big hole in the "freedom of speech" idea, created by the "Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdete Schriften". they judge video(game)s. if they discover danger for children in it, every article about the game is somehow problematic: as soon as the game is "indiziert", public advertisement is forbidden. sometimes in the past game mags were confiscated, because a game was put on the index after the mag was printed. examples: doom, wolfenstein, quake. these games must not be sold/showed to minors.

mfg
wulfman

OT: austrian elections: got PM. or is there more interest in the topic?

[thop]

In this country, we do have libel and slander laws. However, we also have VIGOROUS protection of the press. Newspapers can print ANYTHING THEY WANT.

Can they write how to prevent copy protection mechanisms which is not allowed since the DCMA was installed? I mean does Freedom of Speech really beat everything in court?

[thop]

well wulfman is right, the BPjS is certainly the most hated thing among minor gamers in germany ones sth. gets on the index you are not allowed to advertise it or have it on display in your shop (you cant even mention the name in a magazine because that counts as advertising). you can sell them to people over 18 though, however you are not allowed to ship it (only from person to person).

the BPjS is the reason that german versions of video games sometimes feature things like green blood or robots instead of human opponents
doesn't affect me cause i only play US/UK versions anyway (i hate localization), still annoying.

they only check a game though if someone files an official request for it, they don't act on their own. recently a request for counterstrike was made, but it got rejected.

[Wulfman]

Originally posted by thop

the BPjS is the reason that german versions of video games sometimes feature things like green blood or robots instead of human opponents
doesn't affect me cause i only play US/UK versions anyway (i hate localization), still annoying.

it indirectly affected austria: US/UK versions were usually quite expensive (although legal) - and these stupid german versions were crippled - annoying. and after all, I don't think austrian minors are more aggressive than their german counterparts.

mfg
wulfman

[GT98]

Originally posted by thop
ok what if you are a guest in a television show and suddenly start out screaming loud: THE PRESIDENT IS A FAG! KILL THE PRESIDENT! will the cops come and protect you?

or another example: let's just assume bill gates buys CNN and the only thing he broadcasts is KILL THE PRESIDENT (both in letters and speech) 24/7, will sth. happen?

Thats just plain stupid...Freedom of Speach isn't the freedom to THREATEN KILL ANYONE. Theres different ways of saying what you want to do that wouldnt bring the wraith of Secret Service down on you if you wanted to kill him.

In reguards to writing about Copyprotection is akin almost the same as writing about Company Trade Secrets...which is called libel