World according to America

[thop]

well it also has a positive effect on austria , f.e. the US version of RTCW was not sold in germany, instead we got a horribly crippled version (you wouldn't believe it) so everyone ordered his not crippled copy from austria. some online shops even had big WE SHIP TO GERMANY signs on their frontpage, kinda funny

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by Wombat
Oops, and what a mistake that was. Edison has currently sold most of its educational materials (yes, they SOLD the textbooks off), tried to get Philly to let them move their corporate offices in to the school, and even proposed exploiting the students as free labor (to run the offices and such). Sounds like a great system.

Actually, it is.

1. that "slave labor" you're talking about is something that's done all the time in schools in my area. What happens in your example is that they re-assign students in the business classes to the office in order to give them practical experience, both in the school and in cooperating local businesses. This is what's called a "co-op" or "school-to-work" program and they work very nicely.

An excellent example of a school-to-work program at our local high school is the restaurant run by the schools culinary arts program; The Eagles Nest. This restaurant is attached to but is functionally separate from the main high school facility. The kids actually run the whole place from management to cooks to servers; rotating positions to get experience in as many areas as possible.

Most of those kids are gobbled up (bigtime) by Schoolcraft College's Culinary Arts program (Livonia, Michigan). As soon as Schoolcrafts CA programs graduation day arrives the headhunters for restaurants across the nation (and even outside of the US) start recruiting the graduates en masse.

Similar programs exist in cooperation with area businesses in professions ranging from accounting to machine shops to robotics companies, auto manufacturing and auto service. The local high schools auto garage is something even most car dealerships would envy. Their computer lab, which includes a very up to date video & animation studio, would give you goose pimples.

2. Selling textbooks to students was the standard operating procedure back when I went to K-12. We had a school store that not only sold books but pencils, pens, paper, rulers and most other basic matrials. The profits were split between the student council (who ran the store as part of the in-building co-op program) and the building teaching materials budget.

The advantage to this system is that the books can be upgraded when the previous edition becomes outdated or better books become available. As such the school doesn't have to keep a supply of books in storage and thus the temptation not to get updated materials to lower expenses is avoided.

When the school itself provides the books without cost what actually happens in the real world is that the budget for upgrading books gets diverted for every other purposed under the sun (pay increases for the staff etc.) and the kids end up with cheap and outdated materials.

Please note that the *only* place in American education that "gives" books to students is in K-12. Everywhere else student purchasing of their own books is the standard for the reasons given above.

Now....there does have to be a program for children whose families cannot afford their books & materials, but not for every kid.

In short I'm in favor of what's called means testing; those kids whose parents can afford to buy their books should do so and kids whose parents cannot shouldn't. The funds for them should be from a program totally separate from the school operating budget in order to provide the separation necessary for the reasons stated above.

IMHO whats necessary is to make K-12 more like college in its organization, operation and expenses, and the programs noted above whould be part of it because the yave been proven to work.

Now....how does this local school and its advanced programs jive with my complaints about the US school system in general?

Very simple; our school district is running "out of formula". This means they do not take state/federal funding!! Because they don't take Caesars money they don't have to follow Ceasers rules. This makes our district a public school system that can act like a private school, and they take full advantage of that situation because the citizens won't put up with them doing otherwise.

This is possible because of the airport being in our city and the revenues that generates. Because of this situation every building in the district has been rebuilt from the inside out (or rebuilt entirely) with the latest technology and learning systems.

Other cities in the area also have gone out of formula, taking advantage of what buisnesses they have. All it takes is creativity and the lack of a "not invented here" attitude.

BTW: my wife's a teacher, so I hear all about the education systems strengths and weaknesses every night.....in excruciating detail

Dr. Mordrid

[Admiral]

Originally posted by UtwigMU
I used to be friend with children of Romanian ambassador here so I know quite a few things about Romania.

The most common word in our language (the swearword that starts with letter p) is the same as in Romanian.

Ce a drake facia ici?

"The most common word in our language (the swearword that starts with letter p) is the same as in Romanian." - You mean the jargon word for the male genitalia ?

"Ce a drake facia ici?" - Is that in Slovenian or an attempt at Romanian ?
in Romanian it's "ce dracu faci aici ?" (what the hell are you doing here?)

Originally posted by KvHagedorn


Well, I had not read the whole thing, no. But of course I knew about the Roman origins and most of the history and actually found the site with a search for "Vlach" from which Walachia derives its name. It's actually a very interesting history. I knew about the German and Hungarian minorities and the long time dispute with Hungary over Transylvania, begun when Arpad decided to claim the province. Knew about Moldavia and Moldova.. Of course lots of people know about Vlad the Impaler.

I got a feeling that Vlad the Impaler is the first thing that pops in mind when thinking of Romania

[Pace]

Oh, lots of reading. The first point I'll raise is that I know the entire lyrics to the "Scottish" national anthem, I could make a fair stab at the British one and the first of the US I suppose Oh, Canada?

2nd point: I haven't read much more of the thread

[Sasq]

Doc, We have that means testing system in Australia (or we still did last i checked). In my state it was called the GAS (govt assisted student) card.
It was a card credited with $x at the begining of each school year and generally it covered school fees, any needed text books and a few of the school excursions.

Worked great, those that didn't need the help, payed. Those that did need the help got it.

[RichL]

Originally posted by Pace
Oh, lots of reading. The first point I'll raise is that I know the entire lyrics to the "Scottish" national anthem, I could make a fair stab at the British one and the first of the US I suppose Oh, Canada?

2nd point: I haven't read much more of the thread

Scotland has a national anthem?

No, I didnt bother reading beyond the first page. Same smeg, different day
I vote we ban anyone from America or Europe from posting here ever again.

[thop]

RichL this thread is actually interesting and quite friendly
But the banning is still a good idea for other threads.

[UtwigMU]

Admiral:
Not male genitalia (p*la in Romanian), female genitalia pi...

I picked up the words, but I never saw them written so....

It was an atempt in Romanian. My friend explained that that's as profane as Romanians are in everyday language, while the extent of profanity is a bit higher here. That word is proabably one of most often spoked words (genereal swearword).

But lot's of people here cannot tell Romania from Bolgaria. Such things are sad.

[Gurm]

thop,

Actually yes. If I'm on a television show, and I jump up and down and scream "The President is a faggot! Kill the president!" the police are duty-bound to protect me. The SS is duty-bound to QUESTION me, IF and ONLY IF it seems that I might actually TRY to kill the President. But it is my right to do that.

See, this is the difference.

- Gurm

[rugger]

Originally posted by Gurm
thop,

Actually yes. If I'm on a television show, and I jump up and down and scream "The President is a faggot! Kill the president!" the police are duty-bound to protect me. The SS is duty-bound to QUESTION me, IF and ONLY IF it seems that I might actually TRY to kill the President. But it is my right to do that.

See, this is the difference.

- Gurm

Well, after doing that, you would really WANT the SS to cart you off. Hmmm, which would you prefer:

1) The angry mob who will likely tear you to shreads the moment you leave to TV studio. At least death would be fairly quick this way.
2) The police who are supposedly protecting you. Expect much torture if you take this route.
3) The SS who can hide you away and while being the "big evil government" the worst they will probably do is interrogate you for several weeks, while looking at you in a disgusted manner.

[Dr Mordrid]

Lessee....

1. With this president; yup, you'd be torn apart outside the courthouse. If it were a certain other recent president who used cigars to pleasure his intern while letting Bin Laden get away multiple times; someone would probably hand you roses

2. Nope. No torture, but don't expect to be treated like Uncle Charlie either. If, nowever, you are stupid enough to take a swing at a cop....

3. Nope. When arrested you are informed of your Miranda rights; which amounts to the right to an attorney and your right not to speak to the police without one. We don not have mandated "interviews". It is, however, up to you to assert these rights.

As far as questioning goes if you assert your right to an attorney they cannot continue questioning until you have one. If, however, you are stupid enough to flap your gums then they can use anything you say against you, and these days most interrogations are video taped which means you're screwed.

You also have the right to a phone call when arrested and this can be to a lawyer, friend or relative. If you are a minor they are required to notify your parent or guardian. In many jails non-violent prisoners are kept in a commons area during the day where there are phones available for making such calls.

Absent a private attorney showing up (due to the phone call) you will be assigned one at the arraignment which has to take place within 24-72 hours (mostly depending on local law), or Monday if the arrest happened on a weekend. If an attorney has to be assigned to you this can be either a public defender or a local one who is assigned by the court at court expense from a pool of lawyers who accept such assignments.

At the arrignment it has to be determined if you present a potential danger to others or a danger of flight (leaving the jurisdiction of the court). If not you must be given the opportunity to post an appearance bond (bail) and on payment of the bond be released. If you are shown to be a potential danger to others or flight then you are held at least until the pre-trial hearing.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

2. That depends. Do you consider tear gas, tazers, and rubber bullets torture. Well, if they think you know something that they <I>really</I> want, they'll just send you over to Turkey for questioning.

3. Not if they brand you "terrorist." Then you apparently don't have rights anymore. Remember the gov't's plans for Padilla?

You also have the right to a phone call when arrested and this can be to a lawyer, friend or relative. If you are a minor they are required to notify your parent or guardian. In many jails non-violent prisoners are kept in a commons area during the day where there are phones available for making such calls.

Absent a private attorney showing up (due to the phone call) you will be assigned one at the arraignment which has to take place within 24-72 hours (mostly depending on local law), or Monday if the arrest happened on a weekend.

At the arrignment it has to be determined if you present a potential danger to others or a danger of flight (leaving the jurisdiction of the court). If not you must be given the opportunity to post an appearance bond (bail) and on payment of the bond be released. If you are shown to be a potential danger to others or flight then you are held at least until the pre-trial hearing.

These and many other rights may be randomly suspended if you're in Texas. Texas, after all, does not let the federal govenment force it into silly things like treaties (e.g. 1963 consular), so make sure they like you if you go there.

[Dr Mordrid]

2a. They are non-lethal weapons meant to subdue. Would you prefer bullets? They are typically not used on prisoners unless you're violent in the jailhouse; then the courts have held that the jailers have the right to the protection they provide when subduing a violent prisoner.

3a. Only if you're not a citizen or deemed an "enemy combatant" and then only when the nation is at war or in a declared national emergency. We are and the same rules applied during WWII.

As far as the Javier Suarez Medina case goes (your reference to the 1963 Consular treaty); Mexico's President Fox insists his country could have "influenced the outcome of the trial" if notified earlier, presumably by exclusion of evidence.

This case is working its way through the courts and will eventually end up with the US Supreme court, but this analysis is interesting;

http://www.tmcec.com/1200vienna.htm

Basically since the treaty is Federal it may only apply to Federal courts. In the US the individual States have their own set of rights (we are a federation, not a homogenous entity) and are therefore not always bound by international treaties with the central government.

This was born out by an opinion by the US State Department which stated that "the Vienna Convention does "not create individual rights at all. ... The [only] remedies for failures of consular notification under the [Vienna Convention] are diplomatic, political, or exist between states under international law."

As such evidence given or obtained before consular notification cannot be excluded under the Federal exclusionary rule and therefore Mr. Fox can take his "influence" over our state trials and shove it. We're talking about a cold blooded killer here.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

Yes, but they're used to "subdue" peaceful protestors all too often these days.

We are NOT at war. The "war on drugs" was just as bullshit as this one, and the gov't still couldn't pull all the crap they are now.

[Dr Mordrid]

I beg your pardon but there have been not just one but two implementations of the War Powers Act in just the last year!! The archaic "Declaration of War" procedure as used by Roosevelt at the outbreak of WWII was replaced by the procedures defined in The War Powers Act of 1973;

PURPOSE AND POLICY

SEC. 2.

(a) It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.

(b) Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all otherpowers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

(c) The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

One War Powers resolution was targeted at al Qaeda and whatever organisations and states support it. The other resolution was targeted specifically at Iraq. Both will remain in effect until Congress revokes them or until the President declares that hostilities have ceased.

The United States has therefore declared war in every meaning of the word and with full congressional support as required in the Constitution. It's now up to the President to use this state of war as he sees fit; both militarily as against al Qaeda and diplomatically as is happening vs. Iraq.

If diplomacy in getting Iraq to comply fails the President has full aurhority to proceed militarily on a moments notice because of the prior authorization given him.

No implementation of the War Powers Act was ever used in the "drug war" since it was more legal than military when it first started. Things change however, and now we know for certain that the drug cartels are largely front organizations that fund terrorist organizations around the world. The US is already beefing up its military presence in South America in cooperation with the local governments in an effort to undermine the cartels and their money flow out of the continent.

As for subduing "peaceful protesters" I hope you're not meaning those morons who have been protesting the G8 and other world economic meetings the last few years. They are anything but peaceful, as is shown by the wake of destruction they left in cities around the world including Seattle.

Also: riot laws allow the dispersal of unruly crowds by non-lethal means including tear gas. This has been upheld in the US courts and is, I believe, much better than the .50 cal machine guns and bayonets some countries routinely use

Dr. Mordrid