Harmless...?

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Pace
Another problem is that cigarettes legal - means they are very easily available to most kids. The age limit is 16 here, so all you need is an older mate, or a big cousin who's just turned 16 and you've got access to as many cigarettes as you want. If that was raised to 21, then you'd half (imho) the number of kids being able to get fags at 13, 14, 15 for instance.

Even easier stand outside the shop and ask an adult. Most adults will do it and just swear at the ones that won't


The chances of banning alcohol are very slim, but I can see a future without fags (we're nowhere near it though, the tobacco companies remain too strong).

Banning Alcohol you can't do that !!!! I agree you won't see a fag free society for many years.

P.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Evildead666

Did you know Nicotine is as addictive as Heroin?
and its legal?!!

To be honest I don't buy this. I know off two people that were chain smokers for 10 years or more. One my Uncle he got married and his wife "right I'll have no more of that rubbish" and he stopped. Still died of a heart attack though years later. The other is friend whos father chain smoked all his life and he just decided to stop one day and never went back.

[Wombat]

They're lucky. Nicotine is just about the most addictive substance known to man, and very very small doses will kill you.

[The PIT]

Ah well I find Nicotine very ineffective for me, one of the reasons I've never took smoking up. Have the odd one now and then or just piss my smokers friends off by demolishing their cigs when they're not looking.

[Jessterw]

Nicotine is indeed very addictive, but most people who can't quit either don't want to or don't have the will power to do so. An interesting aside is that a large number of people I know, including myself, that quit smoking have moved on to other habits or addictions. Caffeine is mine.

[ravalox]

I'm very sorry to hear this sad news.

However, due to an incident with my best friend in high school, I would recommend scrutinizing the character/personality of the individual who has taken this amount of LSD (or any drug for that matter). At that point in time, my friend was enjoying life to the fullest and taking serious risks with drugs. I'd also like to note that he did (and does not) smoke cigarettes.

He came to me one day a couple of hours before school was out, and tells me he can't believe what he just did. "I just took 16 hits of acid," he said. I nearly shit in my pants. His reasoning was to "know what taking that much acid would be like." Needless to say, I agreed to drive him home after school, and was thankful he was in control of most of his faculties when I dropped him off.

Fortunately, what he had taken was relatively weak blotter, and he did not incur any serious health injuries from this stupidity. Unfortunately, his lust for life's indulgences caught up with him some months later when he got into cocaine. He was missing for nearly three weeks - strung out on cocaine and crystal, and tried committing suicide more than once before he realized he was living life too hard, too fast.

Today, he's a lead architect developing s/w for one of the big studios. Somewhat of a Cinderella story in this case, but for most who live life like there's no tomorrow, it's not. And for most there will be no tomorrow. Similar to the age-old gun adage, drugs alone don't kill people, people kill themselves with drugs. And 99% of the time it's due to their own idiotic acts.

PS - One day, we hope to be proprietors of a nice little farm in Canada. Maybe we'll invite Zokes...

[Sethos]

There may be no physical effects per- say (and yes i know it's mis-spelled...) but there is evidence to suggest that a psycological addiction is no different than a physical addiction, in terms of the effect on the body. think of it as a wierd placibo effect if you will.

~Sethos

[Gurm]

Sethos,

No, there's a difference between psycho-somatic mimicry of the physical effects of addiction, and actual physical addiction. It's an order of magnitude.

Have you ever SEEN a heroin addict in full-fledged withdrawal? It's NOT a pretty sight. They are in PAIN. Screaming, crying, clawing at the walls. It's ugly, man.

Compare that to a pot "addict" in "withdrawal"... they are freaking out but that's about it.

- Gurm

[Evildead666]

I understand that Pot withdrawl isn't physical, or as graphics as hard drug withdrawl, but your body can get used to anything, even pot.
If your body is used to have a certain percentage of THC in the bloodstream, and then there is none, it will react.
Not as violently as a full blown physical addiction, but it will still be there.

Physical addiction is possible with anything.

When it comes to people stopping smoking for example, there are a lot more cases of successful quitting, in one go. Just like that. The withdrawl symptoms are still there, but not as graphic/painful. For most people.

[Jammrock]

I'm not dead yet!!!

Been out sick lately, so I haven't been able to keep up...and I don't really have time to read all the posts. I've calmed down a bit, so here goes...

Brother/Family Update

He's in a state run hospital now and going through detox. Most of the drug effects have worn off...at least as much as LSD can wear off. He's no longer under constant supervision and doesn't want to cut his head open anymore, which is a good sign. Once he's through detox we're shipping him out to rehab.

We don't know the exact amount he took, but the person who gave it to him (to be named later in this post) said it was weak stuff so he'd have to take 'extra'. He had 7 bags of whatever form of LSD he had and got through 4.5 bag before he started going whacky, which we were told was around 30 hits.

We are also pretty sure he was on 'other' stuff at the same time, probably pain killers or some other type of pharmaceutical drug. My search uncovered a bag of large, enlongated, orange pills and a bag of small, circular, powerdery, white pills, which were brought to the hospital to test what they were.

Now for the Soap Opera twist...I found out last night that my (soon to be ex-)brother-in-law was the one that gave my brother the LSD. Needless to say, the family is not pleased. My sister is filing for divorce today and my [ex-]brother-in-law is running to somewhere in Montana.

And the bloody soap opera continues...

Back to pot stuff...

Let's get something straight right here and now...no matter how much research, pro-marijuana propoganda and other bulls*** you dig up, a few facts remain:

1) Pot is addictive. Maybe not physically addictive per say, but mentally it is. Addictive is addictive, no matter what word you stick before it.*

2) Pot is mind/mood altering.**

3) Pot is illegal in the United States of America. ***

Back to the gateway issue, allow me to clarify for those who haven't figured it out. Pot is not the gateway drug because of it's addictive or mind altering aspects, as you can smoke tobaco or drink alcohol to do that, but because of the methods and means by which it is attained...namely illegally.

In most people, there is this little 'voice' inside their head that says, "this is illegal, do not do it." If you listen to that voice, the proverbial 'gate' is closed and you won't participate in the illegal activity. Now take into account the following:

1) Pot is the most commonly used illegal drug.

2) To obtain pot you have to either: a) grow it and refine it illegally yourself or b) obtain a pre-refined subtance from a drug dealer, which is also illegal. And if a friend hands it to you, even for free, he is technically now a drug dealer.

Once you have given in to the urge to smoke pot, whether through peer pressure, pro-marijuana propoganda, rebellion ...whatever... you have now disregarded the inside voice and have opened the proverbial gate into the world of illegal drugs. Because, no matter how hard you try to justify it, pot is illegal in the US unless you're in California with a perscription.

Now that the 'gateway' in open, you have contact with drug dealers and illegal substances. That little voice is no loger there to stop you from continuing your way down the path to bigger, nastier things. It is in this way that pot is the gateway drug. People think it harmless, for some reason do it, and break down the wall that keeps them out of the illegal drug world.

True, many people don't go farther down the path and only stick to pot, cigarettes and alcohol, but many, like my little brother, keep giving in to peer pressure and go farther down teh path until your being restrained in a hospital because you want a scalple to cut your head open to get the worms out.

Plus...we already have 2 legal vices, why the hell would anyone want to legalize a third?

End Marijuana Rant

On the funny side, my brother called the FBI while he was tripping and asked them how to take out the worms and the phone they had implanted in him. I bet someone in the FBI got a good laugh out of that conversation!

Jammrock



* - Sure you can say, "I know people that give up pot smoking in an instant!" Yeah, so f***'n what? I know people that can smoke cigarettes and drink for a year and quit in an instant without a single withdrawl symptom. Does that make cigarettes or alcohol any less addictive? I say to thee, nope.

** - although, I suppose if you are *ALWAYS* under the influence of pot, 24/7, you could say your altered state has become you normal state...

*** - With the exception of a handful of pharmaceutical prescriptions.

[Evildead666]

Re: I'm not dead yet!!!

Glad to hear he's recovering well...
Thats the most important thing in this case....

As for your Ex-Bro-in-Law: Find the bastard before he gets away.

If it was me, I would make Nicotine illegal too, as much as Heroin and speed. It is a highly addicitive substance....that the whole world could do without.

[ZokesPro]

I'm glad to hear that your brother is recovering.

[KRSESQ]

Damn, Jamm...that's bad S**t.

One quick question, without (hopefully) fanning the flames...

How old was your brother when he first got involved with cigs/booze/drugs? The reason I ask is that there was a recent study (if I can find a link I'll post) that found a direct correllation between the age of the first-time user and the so-called "gateway effect." That is, the younger the first-time user is, the greater the chance that the user would go on to harder drugs. This may seem obvious, but its an important consideration in evaluating an addict for rehab.

One thing we all need to keep in mind is that individuals vary greatly in their tolerance for addictive/toxic substances. One person may smoke one cig and be hooked for life. Another (like my dad) may smoke 20 or 30 years and be able to walk away. Some can smoke pot recreationally for years with few (if any) serious side effects and be just fine if the supply dries up, while others...well, you get the picture.

I guess my point to all this is that a "one-size-fits-all" approach (pardon the cliche) is useless when dealing with problems like this. I certainly am not advocating legalizing LSD or heroin, but I think we'd make a lot more headway in the "War on Drugs" if we prioritized the problem better and stopped treating it as strictly a law-enforcement issue and started treating it as a public health issue.

(God, now I sound like some damned politician!)

Kevin

[Strahd]

Re: I'm not dead yet!!!

Originally posted by Jammrock

Back to pot stuff...

Let's get something straight right here and now...no matter how much research, pro-marijuana propoganda and other bulls*** you dig up, a few facts remain:

1) Pot is addictive. Maybe not physically addictive per say, but mentally it is. Addictive is addictive, no matter what word you stick before it.*

2) Pot is mind/mood altering.**

3) Pot is illegal in the United States of America. ***

Back to the gateway issue, allow me to clarify for those who haven't figured it out. Pot is not the gateway drug because of it's addictive or mind altering aspects, as you can smoke tobaco or drink alcohol to do that, but because of the methods and means by which it is attained...namely illegally.

Once you have given in to the urge to smoke pot, whether through peer pressure, pro-marijuana propoganda, rebellion ...whatever... you have now disregarded the inside voice and have opened the proverbial gate into the world of illegal drugs. Because, no matter how hard you try to justify it, pot is illegal in the US unless you're in California with a perscription.

Now that the 'gateway' in open, you have contact with drug dealers and illegal substances. That little voice is no loger there to stop you from continuing your way down the path to bigger, nastier things. It is in this way that pot is the gateway drug. People think it harmless, for some reason do it, and break down the wall that keeps them out of the illegal drug world.

* - Sure you can say, "I know people that give up pot smoking in an instant!" Yeah, so f***'n what? I know people that can smoke cigarettes and drink for a year and quit in an instant without a single withdrawl symptom. Does that make cigarettes or alcohol any less addictive? I say to thee, nope.

** - although, I suppose if you are *ALWAYS* under the influence of pot, 24/7, you could say your altered state has become you normal state...

*** - With the exception of a handful of pharmaceutical prescriptions.

Agreed 100%.

Glad things are looking brighter for you and your family.

[Jessterw]

Glad to hear back from you Jam and that your brother is recovering as best as he can. The next few months, or even the next year, are going to be hard on everyone, though I'm sure you're aware of that. Hopefully your brother can come clean and fully realize his situation.

You're also right about what you said. Anyhow, drug/substance addiction/abuse of any kind is never a one-size-fits-all deal... that's true to almost every aspect of life.

As for your soon to be ex-brother-in-law... here's to hoping he gets what he deserves. I have no respect for anyone who sells drugs, especially lethal ones... add to that the fact that he sold it to a family member. Hell that makes me mad just thinking about it.

Anyways, enough of that, I hope everything works out and that your family can come out of this stronger and your brother can come clean with a new outlook on life.